Get rid of Trident

[radge]

military pwoer and gravitas is what a country needs. we shoud find money from numerous other pointless schemes and pish around the coutry to boost our education housing, health systems. Military power is very important in our world. Its one of the fundamentals of a country along with education, health, employment, transport and emergency services. you have all of those running well, everything else pales to insignificance really. everything else is a bonus or a waste of time.

[minge tightly]

Why do we need a say in world affairs radge and what constitutes world affairs that we should be involved in or have our voice heard on?
We've already blown any standing we might have had on climate change for example by the approval of a third runway at Heathrow, putting money first. Again.
Does Israel give a toss what Britian thinks of it? Does Zimbabwe? Or China and India? And that's with a nuclear deterrent/option.
Britain can't trade on it's Empire forever and even it's supposed experience in certain circumstances isn't as worthwhile as we think it is - think the smug boast about British troops in Iraq not wearing helmets (a la Northern Ireland) and then being bested in Basra.
Replacing Trident is to stay resolutely stuck in a past which is long gone.
To carry on wanting to punch above our weight internationally, when the benefits of doing so are murky at best, is an odd ambition for a nation that has plenty of domestic problems that could do with resolving.

[radge]

Minge Isreal does care what britain thinks. Zimbabwe doesnt cause they have a dictator in power, china doesnt cause theyre communist and India does care. think about it. We should have a say in world affairs otherwise things just happen around us on the bigger scale. If you have had the power in the first place, you dont just let it go. that is totally self defeatist idea. I agree we shouldnt throw our weight around but we should never willing loose our position on world affairs. Getting rid of Trident would distinctly harm that position. we dont punch above our weight either, we back up our weight. But its the individuals who run the country who you have a problem with not our actual position.

[omnipleasant]

It's not nukes that gives us a say in world affairs, it's the fact that we're one of the richest nations on the planet. It's all about economics.

Scrap trident. We don't need it.

[radge]

both omni. both. For all any of us know, if we didnt have those 3 subs circling our island we could have already been shat upon by someone, but because we do have them no one has tried sh*t. Thats true is it not? We dont get hassle because no one wants to hassle us. cause they know the last resort is a big BIG mess.

[minge tightly]

'Minge Isreal does care what britain thinks.'

Any evidence for that radge? Because for all the protests we as a staunch ally make, the Israeli's happily ignore them and have done for years.

'If you have had the power in the first place, you dont just let it go. that is totally self defeatist idea.'

Except the British did so in many of the countries they colonised and ruled. Sounds like we want to keep power for the sake of it.

'But its the individuals who run the country who you have a problem with not our actual position.'

I'm afraid I do have a problem with our actual position (As well as the individuals who run the country) as this desire to keep it, against the reality outside of the parochial British view, means we continually spunk good money after bad in a desperate attempt to keep hold of it, when that money would be far better spent, either on the armed forces we actually utilise or on maming the country a better place for Britons to live in, be it through social projects, or great engineering projects

'It's all about economics.'

Absolutely, yet we need to face the reality that Britain is losing it's place in the economic standings and that process will only accelerate as the country sinks under its own weight of debt and unsustainable model of capitalism.

'Thats true is it not?'

I don't think so no. Germany for example has no nuclear deterrent of its own yet has been able to live in peace for 60 years without being shat upon. That's because it came under the US nuclear deterrent admittedly, but then so does Britain

[minge tightly]

I guess we might have to agree to disagree though

[radge]

Isreal do care cause they want to be included in Europe. So they care what all of Europe thinks. Although if they have Americas backing then they dont have to listen too hard. but they still care.
We gave countries back to their rightful owners (for good or for bad) but thats because diplomacy is how the world works nowadays which is infinitely an improvment of invading and taking over. We relinquished the power as people wished for. Relinquishing the power on the world stage we have now would be a mistake, and it cant be compared to how the empire was run.
You only have a problem with our position because the individuals who run our country. we could still have our strong position but have someone on power who deals with it in a more acceptable way (to you and to lots of others) without giving up our say in world matter, or without loosing our voice and opinion in world matters.
As for the True or not statement. I can say its true because we have not been messed with, because we have had that nuclear deterrent, however you cant say its not because you dont know what could have happened to us in the past 60 years without it. Just because Germany havent had hassle doesnt mean the UK wouldnt have had hassle.
Economics has a massive say in what voice we have internationally, but with our curerent situ our place in world affairs could be massivley damaged, but with our nuclear capabilities no matter what our economics do we still have a say. Military and economics are what keep the world ticking over. better to have both, if one goes you better have the other. if you loose both then you are really up the creek.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Israel has been criticised by the EU and individual governments within it including Britain (and the UN and other governments around the world, even Obama) but I don't see that it made any difference. Ignoring it completely is an odd way to show that you care what somebody thinks.

Sweden has no nukes and has not been involved in a war for 200 years.

Scrap it.

[radge]

sweden doesnt have the international influence Britain does, nor has it ever had. It works for them not to have it, but unfortunately we joined the race to develop nukes, and we deal with the responsibility of being involved in that elite group of countries because we did develop them. Cant change the past, just gotta make the future better.

They care, its just no-one is doing anything to stop them. if we did you can guarantee they would stop or at least try and work something out.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Sweden doesn't have the economic clout that Britain has. And we're not talking wholesale disarmament, just scrapping Trident cos it's a total waste of money we haven't got.

What should we be doing to stop Israel? I assume you're not suggesting we threaten to nuke them?

[radge]

dont ask me what we should do about Israel im not in power, im not making those decisions. I dont have a solution cause i dont know all the ins and outs. but yeah both israel and Palestine should be wiped off the face of the earth cause they are like petty school kids totally stubborn and wont try anything for the greater good. the world would be better without them

A very few countries in the world have nuclear capability. Trident is ours. We are part of an Elite. Thats what it comes down to. keep that status but use it for good and positivity. there is always a positive to every negative you just gotta look for it or work it in there somehow.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Well is Trident all we got?

[newyorker]

Jan 16, 2009 12:54:49 GMT @fastkat said:

£20 billion is waste on nuclear weapons. Get rid of it. Spend the money on housing and education.

Then the barbarian hordes invade, level the houses and carry off those educated kids.

[ricklinc]

Can't blame army chiefs for this attitude. They see British forces sent out with inferior kit because money won't stretch to nu labour's political pretensions for the military. And it doesn't improve no matter how many are killed or injured.

Trouble is that the disarmament geeks are going to jump on this one. Leftover lefties looking for a cause now that it looks like they've fcuked up with the social engineering experiments and the whole green thing has been hijacked from under them by Al Gore and Emma Thompson. Every minority group has it's own bespoke demanders for rights so the average lefty must be feeling a bit pissed off. And pissed out. And pissing wet through.

[yord]

Im amazed that any fecker should ever want to invade us. I think if they ever do they'll turn around apologise and say feck, you can keep it.

[fastkat]

We don't need Trident anymore. Get rid of it and save the money. America has more than enough warheads to protect us if we need them.

[yord]

on the other hand , as the UK has feck all , I think we'd better up it a bit and go and steal some other feckers that aint got one to hit us back with.

[lawrence]

So in the catastrophic event of nuclear war {ww3} The US will exchange ICBMs with Russia , China , Iran etc while Britain stays on the sidelines , useless as tits on a boar ? I don't think so.