|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 12:17:51 GMT
What's your excuse for not joining? I assume you think you're in the intelligent Christian category. If there is a dark secret about the BHA which you have uncovered, couldn't you tell us what it is instead of waffling away portentously. The objectives of the BHA are to set up an alternate theology as evidenced by this latest campaign. It is astonishing that one such as yourself, who rants on about those imposing their morality on society can succum to what is bascally an intelegent cult based upon personality. My experience with cults suggests that intelegent people are often the easiest to convince and the most difficult to break away. But I'm sure that like so many adherients before, you will ignore the rather obvious signs and continue to do so as these become even more obvious. |
|
|
|
Post by peakman on Jan 19, 2009 13:03:29 GMT
| agree. It is not a religious belief if you reject a god. I will also agree with you. But the British Humanist Assoc. has not actually chosen to reject a god, but rather to replace that god with themselves and to replace the philosophy behind that god, as they see it, with their own doctrine. Sound like the B.H.A. maybe on to something. I myself have never seen the "Christianity" taught by the Jesus of the Gospels, as being a religion. In fact I believe his followers were known as those who followed "The Way", whatever that was , whatever it was, it was taken out of history, purged by that self proclaimed apostle, Paul. The chapter and verse that could possibly apply to the B.H.M is John 14:20, which refers to that day when we realize just who and what we are. Like I say, maybe they are on to something. |
|
avieder
New Member
never lie
Posts: 8,871
|
Post by avieder on Jan 19, 2009 13:37:12 GMT
"Thou shall not murder", or steal or lie, all stem from a religious root. They come from common sense. Yes. by now these principles given in Sinai became common sense. If you think about they do go against nature". A G-d fearing person will not lie because he cannot cheat G-d. A godless person will lie his head off because he does not fear even men. "So what if I twist the truth or lie totally - what will you do to me?" Ah, Bert? Is a 7 day week "common sense" too? Does Gravity exist (repeated question...) |
|
VikingHumpingWitch
New Member
"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
|
Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 19, 2009 13:59:20 GMT
A godless person will lie his head off because he does not fear even men. What a monumentally simplistic and offensive view. There are plenty of theories as to why humans are essentially decent and compassionate for perfectly godless, evolutionary biology-based reasons, and the survival of the species for countless millions of years before your god arrived on the scene suggests that we managed quite well. All that aside, it's tosh anyway. For one thing, I fear "men" more than "god" because, for example, lying under oath in a court is an offence for which I can be punished by due legal process, whereas any god is going to have to wait until I die to get one over on me, and as I don't believe in any of them anyway that's not really a cause for concern. For another, I was brought up to believe that lying is just wrong and you just don't. It has to do with respect for people, something you don't need a god to have. And of course, the faithful never lie do they. |
|
kog
New Member
Posts: 2,315
|
Post by kog on Jan 19, 2009 14:00:43 GMT
Sack him and revoke his driving licence for life - that should do the job
|
|
|
|
Post by Libby on Jan 19, 2009 14:03:59 GMT
Does anyone know what the latest is on this news story, what happened to the bus driver?!
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Jan 19, 2009 14:24:57 GMT
[ A G-d fearing person will not lie because he cannot cheat G-d. A godless person will lie his head off because he does not fear even men The strange thing is that this is most offensive to the god-fearing. Those of us atheists behave well (when we do) do so because we're good people. You religious types clearly only behave well because you're doing it under duress and blackmail and the threat of eternal damnation. |
|
dwad
New Member
Posts: 1,146 
|
Post by dwad on Jan 19, 2009 14:28:37 GMT
[ A G-d fearing person will not lie because he cannot cheat G-d. A godless person will lie his head off because he does not fear even men The strange thing is that this is most offensive to the god-fearing. Those of us atheists behave well (when we do) do so because we're good people. You religious types clearly only behave well because you're doing it under duress and blackmail and the threat of eternal damnation. And fear. Don't forget fear. Oh, and worry. We're very worried. |
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 14:38:02 GMT
In fact I believe his followers were known as those who followed "The Way", whatever that was , whatever it was, it was taken out of history, purged by that self proclaimed apostle, Paul. There are many reasons why the teachings of Jesus were corrupted, but principally it seems to have been a series of compromises between the Roman church and the various governments. It isn't my place to tell anyone what those teachings actually were. For my part I read the teachings of Jesus and put aside all the rest. The other writings of the New Testament are principally communications between various early teachers and various local communities. Some of the injunctions there have been taken literally as universal. I understand that Jehova's Witnesses follow the idea of a woman covering her head during worship. Many groups think that they must attend a religious rite every Sunday. In reality these were intended for those communities to address local issues. Jesus made it clear that we must respect local law where it doesn't conflict with the law of God. "Thou shall not murder", or steal or lie, all stem from a religious root. They come from common sense. Yes. by now these principles given in Sinai became common sense. The principal difference between the teachings of Jesus and the 10 commandments as accepted by the Jews is the 6th. Whereas the Jews tend to say this is Don't murder, Jesus made it clear to us that it actually means Don't Kill. This is of course just the starting point. Jesus made it clear to us that our relationship with God is personal. No man may judge us and we answer to no man. We do not need to attend any church. No material thing is worthy of worship, Thinking about sin, ie breaking any of the 10 commandments, is the same as doing it. I understand, from talking to another Jew that Judaism has something like 315 commandmants. As a Christian I can only accept the original 10 as clarified by Jesus. I do of course, respect the right of Jews to follow their own path. |
|
ricklinc
New Member
Nostalgia
Posts: 2,597
|
Post by ricklinc on Jan 19, 2009 14:41:29 GMT
I'm not sure what it is about the humanists that makes me uneasy. We've had millennia of holy man types telling people how to live, humanists appear to be the latest incarnation of the I-know-best bunch. Previous social engineers passed off their masterplans as having come from a god. Humanists admit that they made it all up. I suppose that hints at honesty.
And I suppose that advertising on a bus is the closest they could get to having a miracle push their faith or lack of it. A bit lame compared to the burning bush and a pillar of fire.
I'm waiting to see what they do next.
|
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 14:41:49 GMT
religious types clearly only behave well because you're doing it under duress and blackmail and the threat of eternal damnation. No. Firstly there is no eternal damnation. Hell doesn't exist. Secondly, the commandments are basic common sense. I dare say that there are many good people with every variety of relationship with God. Sadly, although I do try to maintain a good relationship with God, I am possibly one of the worst for breaking these 10 rules. |
|
|
|
Post by puffin on Jan 19, 2009 14:42:25 GMT
What about a bit of tolerance for people with a religion for people without one, and a bit of tolerance for those without a religion for people who do have one?
Surely everyone is entitled to follow their own belief system without being slagged off by those who don't feel the same.
Why should it bother anyone else that I'm a Christian? I'm not bothered that people are atheists or follow another religion. That's thier choice. I've made mine.
No-one has the monopoly on either good or evil. Belief in God doesn't automatically make you good, any more than being an Atheist does.
It is what people do, not what they are or say they believe, that makes them people you would be happy to know...or not.
|
|
dwad
New Member
Posts: 1,146
|
Post by dwad on Jan 19, 2009 14:42:50 GMT
We do not need to attend any church.
Where does he say this? I think that maybe his and our understanding of church may be different but the concept of meeting with other believers was integral to his life?
|
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 14:47:09 GMT
We do not need to attend any church. Where does he say this? I think that maybe his and our understanding of church may be different but the concept of meeting with other believers was integral to his life? It's in the Surmon on the Mount. Jesus told us how to pray. There are several points He made. Later he makes it clear that resting on the sabbath doesn't mean doing nothing, just breaking from your labours. |
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Jan 19, 2009 14:49:50 GMT
religious types clearly only behave well because you're doing it under duress and blackmail and the threat of eternal damnation. No. Firstly there is no eternal damnation. Hell doesn't exist. Secondly, the commandments are basic common sense. I dare say that there are many good people with every variety of relationship with God. Sadly, although I do try to maintain a good relationship with God, I am possibly one of the worst for breaking these 10 rules. Yes. The commandments are (mostly) common sense. At least the terrestrial commandments - the jealous god stuff is all a bit wet. Which means there's no reason to think they come from god at all, but might as well come from the code of Hamuirrabi or wherever. And the idea that people only obey the common sense because of what god said is, frankly, a bit peculiar. (Oh, and lots of people disagree with your theological interpretation of whether there's hell or not). |
|
feral
New Member
Posts: 8,237
|
Post by feral on Jan 19, 2009 14:49:56 GMT
I'm not sure what it is about the humanists that makes me uneasy. Their name surely . |
|
radge
New Member
Posts: 1,776
|
Post by radge on Jan 19, 2009 14:59:16 GMT
feral too true  heh heh |
|
dwad
New Member
Posts: 1,146
|
Post by dwad on Jan 19, 2009 15:14:13 GMT
We do not need to attend any church. Where does he say this? I think that maybe his and our understanding of church may be different but the concept of meeting with other believers was integral to his life? It's in the Surmon on the Mount. Jesus told us how to pray. There are several points He made. Later he makes it clear that resting on the sabbath doesn't mean doing nothing, just breaking from your labours. He talks about prayer, but not church? Where does he say this about church? |
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 15:50:14 GMT
He talks about prayer, but not church? Where does he say this about church? I'm sorry Dowd, I won't get into an argument with anyone over this matter. All I can suggest is you read the gospels again. I strongly suggest you clear your mind and read them from the begining to the end in one sitting. Other than that, if you feel you must go to a church then I have no problem with that. |
|
|
|
Post by bertrus2 on Jan 19, 2009 15:50:34 GMT
The objectives of the BHA are to set up an alternate theology as evidenced by this latest campaign. Tarrant How can the rejection of a practice be an alternative way of practicising it. Theology, to quote the Concise Oxford Dictionary (or any other reference work), is 'the study of the nature of God'. Humanism rejects the notion of God and, hence, is not based on 'the study of nature of God'. Rejection of a belief in fairies is not another way of believing in fairies. Not smoking is not another way of smoking. I assume your desperate wish to claim that non-religion is a sort of religion is your way of trying to say that I am as much an idiot as you. That is open to argument and your shrill and strident irrational claims that opposites are the same requires some work. |
|
