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Post by Repat Van on Jul 14, 2016 11:43:44 GMT
Yes - the people are too stupid to know whether they wish to be part of the political entity known as the EU.
And Scottish people are way too stupid to know whether or not they want to be part of the UK or not.
Yes sirree.
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auldhippy
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"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." Orwell
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 14, 2016 12:07:20 GMT
"You don't know what you've got till it's gone"
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lala
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Post by lala on Jul 14, 2016 13:04:21 GMT
Yes - the people are too stupid to know whether they wish to be part of the political entity known as the EU. And Scottish people are way too stupid to know whether or not they want to be part of the UK or not. Yes sirree. You are - deliberately, I suspect - missing the point, which is that O'Neill is a disingenuous turd and is one of these rare people who manages to come across as even more of a dick than Dawkins. Even George Pell came off as less of a dick than Dawkins, in a debate that Mango ordered me to watch. And Pell is a cardinal dick (pun intentional). |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 14, 2016 13:14:32 GMT
Jesus. Why on earth would you have to invent something crappy that Richard Dawkins said. Dawkins comes up with so much sh*t there's surely something on the record you can use without going all fictional?
But no. I guess it's pathological with O'Neill, he can't stop himself making up quotes even when he doesn't need to.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 14, 2016 13:37:42 GMT
Yes - the people are too stupid to know whether they wish to be part of the political entity known as the EU. And Scottish people are way too stupid to know whether or not they want to be part of the UK or not. Yes sirree. You are - deliberately, I suspect - missing the point, which is that O'Neill is a disingenuous turd and is one of these rare people who manages to come across as even more of a dick than Dawkins. Even George Pell came off as less of a dick than Dawkins, in a debate that Mango ordered me to watch. And Pell is a cardinal dick (pun intentional). I'm not missing the point. I am mocking Dawkins et al who think people are too stupid to know whether or not they wish to be part of a political unit or not. O'Neill is having a rare spot on moment. |
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lala
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Post by lala on Jul 14, 2016 13:50:54 GMT
Even there, you are wrong.
Dawkins is not saying people do not know if they wish to be part of the EU. He is saying that knowing if we should be (which is not at all the same thing) is tremendously complex and hard to judge, and we have actually elected people to worry about that sort of stuff for us.
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 14, 2016 13:58:56 GMT
O'Neill utterley spot on here.
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Post by flatandy on Jul 14, 2016 14:00:37 GMT
I think it's interesting to mull a moment on what Dawkins actually did say. Which is that the public are two uninformed to make a rational complex decision about the EU as they can't have sufficient info. I think he's basically right about that. The funny thing, though, is that this completely kills any argument for a second referendum. Either a repeat referendum, or a referendum on the terms of Brexit.
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Post by flatandy on Jul 14, 2016 14:01:58 GMT
By the way, it sounds like Phil Hammond has said that we'll be exiting the Single Market as well as the EU. Which is also the position that David Davis was arguing for. Is Hard Brexit and going to the WTO going to be May's goal? That's definitely an interesting move...
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 14, 2016 14:04:23 GMT
Even there, you are wrong. Dawkins is not saying people do not know if they wish to be part of the EU. He is saying that knowing if we should be (which is not at all the same thing) is tremendously complex and hard to judge, and we have actually elected people to worry about that sort of stuff for us. Because people are too stupid to know if they wish to be part of a political unit or not. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 14, 2016 14:07:39 GMT
By the way, it sounds like Phil Hammond has said that we'll be exiting the Single Market as well as the EU. Which is also the position that David Davis was arguing for. Is Hard Brexit and going to the WTO going to be May's goal? That's definitely an interesting move... I don't think they can opt to stay in the single market given how fierce opposition to the open door migration policy is and they can do nothing about it while part of the EU. They will have to reassure the FS industry however. I also don't think, if I'm honest, this will change migration numbers all that much. The reality is the will is not there on the part of any of the major parties. |
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lala
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Post by lala on Jul 14, 2016 20:42:12 GMT
Even there, you are wrong. Dawkins is not saying people do not know if they wish to be part of the EU. He is saying that knowing if we should be (which is not at all the same thing) is tremendously complex and hard to judge, and we have actually elected people to worry about that sort of stuff for us. Because people are too stupid to know if they wish to be part of a political unit or not. Nope. because there is a difference between wanting something and knowing if it is actually a good thing. I want to have sex with every other woman I see. I know it isn't wise to attempt it, for many compelling reasons. the reasons why it might be a good idea to be in the EU or not - what ever your visceral response - are far more complicated than "I'll be lucky if I am just put in jail because my wife will probably kill me." You said that you basically made up your mind because you didn't like the tone of the Remain campaign. Hardly a sensible decision. Maybe everyone else should get a vote, apart from you. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 14, 2016 21:24:25 GMT
Because people are too stupid to know if they wish to be part of a political unit or not. Nope. because there is a difference between wanting something and knowing if it is actually a good thing. I want to have sex with every other woman I see. I know it isn't wise to attempt it, for many compelling reasons. the reasons why it might be a good idea to be in the EU or not - what ever your visceral response - are far more complicated than "I'll be lucky if I am just put in jail because my wife will probably kill me." You said that you basically made up your mind because you didn't like the tone of the Remain campaign. Hardly a sensible decision. Maybe everyone else should get a vote, apart from you. If it's what they want it's what they want. Erm no, the tone of the Remain campaign is NOT why I voted leave. I can't stand the average Remainer, would hate to be placed in the same bracket as one and hated the fact their campaign consisted of just calling people racist or insisting people are too stupid to know if they wish to be part of a political entity or not. But if I wanted to be part of the EU I would have voted for it. And just kept it secret lest anybody confuse me for a Guardianista. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 7:16:16 GMT
Most of the Brexiters I had/have the pleasure to meet are misinformed xenophobes. Fact. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
And frankly, I cannot for the life of me see any advantages to Brexit at all. And I'm a leave me alone it's my fcuking life sort of bloke in real life.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 15, 2016 7:26:44 GMT
Yeah I have over egged it a bit. Of the Bremainers I know only a couple are part of the Sneery elite. Most just really think the UK belongs in the EU (even if they all have some degree of issues with the EU.)
They think I am crazy but know I can see some
Good in the EU and would have been a firm Remain if they would liberalise a little and if they had never undergone the rapid expansion project.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 7:32:56 GMT
Agree on the rapid expansion bit. Beginning of the rot.
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Jul 15, 2016 9:23:32 GMT
Most of the Brexiters I had/have the pleasure to meet are misinformed xenophobes. Fact. Sorry, but that's the way it is. And frankly, I cannot for the life of me see any advantages to Brexit at all. And I'm a leave me alone it's my fcuking life sort of bloke in real life. "I had/have the pleasure to meet are misinformed xenophobes" I'd suggest you try meeting new people. |
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 15, 2016 9:47:09 GMT
Going pretty well so far.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 15, 2016 10:28:03 GMT
Agree on the rapid expansion bit. Beginning of the rot. So can we get a referendum on my vision of the EU - I would like that  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 12:03:55 GMT
Nice article: "Now it is possible all the unskilled and unemployed Leave voters of Sunderland and Boston will borrow Norman Tebbit's bike, and cycle merrily down to the blackberry fields, grateful for the opportunity for a bit of back-breaking labour." Here..."Or maybe the points-style system could allow a certain number of unskilled Poles into the country to do the jobs they've been doing, but this would rather run counter to the apparent instruction of the electorate, who are not required to be economically literate." |
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