voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,259
|
Post by voice on Aug 19, 2019 15:36:21 GMT
So mids, several outside groups agitating for violence, self described as far right white supremacists waving swastikas and giving nazi salutes are, in the mind of you and their fellow travelers, not in fact fascist/nazis?
Talk about deluded, even for you that's bollox.
|
|
mids
New Member
Posts: 61,066
|
Post by mids on Aug 19, 2019 15:55:53 GMT
"That if someone has all the beliefs and behaviours and goals and tactics of the Brownshirts, but doesn't actually have a membership card signed by Benito, they're not really fascists at all..."
You've just described Antifa, ironically.
|
|
mids
New Member
Posts: 61,066
|
Post by mids on Aug 19, 2019 15:56:59 GMT
So mids, several outside groups agitating for violence, self described as far right white supremacists waving swastikas and giving nazi salutes are, in the mind of you and their fellow travelers, not in fact fascist/nazis? Talk about deluded, even for you that's bollox. Show me some video of this. |
|
voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,259
|
Post by voice on Aug 19, 2019 16:41:38 GMT
D H Lawrence summed it up nicely
“Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.”
|
|
mids
New Member
Posts: 61,066
|
Post by mids on Aug 19, 2019 17:21:29 GMT
Spot on comment from Lawrence. Utterly spot on.
|
|
voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,259
|
Post by voice on Aug 19, 2019 17:51:52 GMT
And yet you cheer the rise of the far extreme right, knowing how much blood was spilled last time to knock them down, you tories sat back and appeased them then and you're doing the same now.
|
|
mids
New Member
Posts: 61,066
|
Post by mids on Aug 19, 2019 17:58:40 GMT
There is no far right. Well ok, there are a few hundred of them in America and about 75 in Britain. Probably 12 or so in Canada. Hardly enough to cause weeping hysterics, is it?
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2019 18:25:15 GMT
To be fair, you'd have probably not considered Oswald and the Brownshirts to be "far right", either. You'd have probably considered them reasonable centrists exercising their rights to free speech and doing the reasonable thing by standing up to communist agitators.
|
|
mids
New Member
Posts: 61,066
|
Post by mids on Aug 19, 2019 18:31:09 GMT
You do realise they don't exist anymore, right? You can't go back to 1936. Those days are gone and they're not coming back.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimboky on Aug 19, 2019 18:48:53 GMT
most conservatives I know have nothing to do with the "far right", including Trump, yet you can't find one dem who will critise Antifa's violence
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2019 18:51:33 GMT
You do realise they don't exist anymore, right? You can't go back to 1936. Those days are gone and they're not coming back. You do know that the existence of the Far Right isn't defined by it being 1936. |
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2019 18:53:12 GMT
Interesting different standards, Jimbo: You want Dems to criticise the people who stand up to fascists, yet you aren't demanding Trump and conservatives criticise and condemn the fascists who were trying to create trouble in Portland at the weekend.
|
|
|
|
Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 19, 2019 19:28:04 GMT
I hate Fascists and I know what Fascism is.
I have written about Fascism on this board over the years - and defined it.
It is a foul system of government. An un-elected elite controlling every aspect of society - the justice system, education and of course the armed forces.
The problem we have today - well, actually over the last few decades - is the undermining of the true meaning of Fascism.
If you call your local Bobby on the beat a Fascist you make Fascism seem OK.
If you scream "Fascist!" at a politician that has a point of view you don't like then you are doing incalculable damage to the fight against real Fascism.
I could go on but I think you get my point.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimboky on Aug 19, 2019 19:46:01 GMT
Interesting different standards, Jimbo: You want Dems to criticise the people who stand up to fascists, yet you aren't demanding Trump and conservatives criticise and condemn the fascists who were trying to create trouble in Portland at the weekend. they were there to protest, just like the antifa was, only the antifa got violent, I really don't care what they were protesting about, if they can do it legally and without violence, I don't care if the little mugs are afraid to show their face,,, saw video of one of your masked hero's threatening someone with a hammer, |
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2019 19:55:26 GMT
So, no condemnation of the actual fascists, then, from you or Trump or any conservatives. Because they have freedom of speech you couldn't possibly actually mention that what they're saying is vile and racist and fascist?
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2019 20:00:20 GMT
I hate Fascists and I know what Fascism is. I have written about Fascism on this board over the years - and defined it. It is a foul system of government. An un-elected elite controlling every aspect of society - the justice system, education and of course the armed forces. The problem we have today - well, actually over the last few decades - is the undermining of the true meaning of Fascism. If you call your local Bobby on the beat a Fascist you make Fascism seem OK. If you scream "Fascist!" at a politician that has a point of view you don't like then you are doing incalculable damage to the fight against real Fascism. I could go on but I think you get my point. You claim it does incalculable damage to the fight against "real Fascism". But who are the real fascists if not these people? Where is this "real Fascism" that needs to be fought - it's obviously in Russia and Turkey, and you could fairly safely say that it's in Hungary and nobody would argue that it's in place across the Middle East from Israel to Iran to Yemen. But is there any fascism at all in the west? |
|
voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,259
|
Post by voice on Aug 19, 2019 20:03:43 GMT
I hate Fascists and I know what Fascism is. I have written about Fascism on this board over the years - and defined it. It is a foul system of government. An un-elected elite controlling every aspect of society - the justice system, education and of course the armed forces. The problem we have today - well, actually over the last few decades - is the undermining of the true meaning of Fascism. If you call your local Bobby on the beat a Fascist you make Fascism seem OK. If you scream "Fascist!" at a politician that has a point of view you don't like then you are doing incalculable damage to the fight against real Fascism. I could go on but I think you get my point. While I don't disagree, those marching in Portland describe themselves as neo nazi white supremacists, it's often in their name and everything. They also have an abundance of nazi symbolism from their use of Stormer as their website to the use of swastikas and nazi salutes, so I think it perfectly reasonable to describe them as fascists or nazis, don't you? And I get why mids has no issue with them, it doesn't have to be 1936 for people like him to want to appease, apologize and pander to them. |
|
|
|
Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2019 20:19:46 GMT
I'm pretty sure that's an oligarchy, to be honest, old fruit. Plutocracy perhaps. Neither Hitler or Mussolini were elite in any meaningful sense. Franco was from quite a smart background. Can't remember about Salazar.
|
|
|
|
Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 19, 2019 20:36:57 GMT
A self electing elite.
Forgive me - I'm doing several things at the same time this evening and didn't write done every aspect of what Fascism is.
|
|
|
|
Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2019 20:46:32 GMT
Fair enough.
|
|
