Capitalism.

[mids]

Not sure what the problem is. Massive company admits to the government it's fcuked just as they're thinking about calling an election. Government agrees to contracts worth billions so the problem can be kicked into the long grass until the election is won. Election won, communists defeated, problem comes back. Ah. Oh well never mind, at least we're in power. All seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[moggyonspeed]

Jan 13, 2018 8:54:18 GMT @oneofthelessergods said:

If the shareholders are paid in accordance with the firm's success surely there's no problem there? And with a backlog of work, why are banks reticent to lend more? Don't make sense.

The majority of companies, regardless of size, fail with a “full” order book, and any enquiry of Companies House / HMRC will bear that out. The issue here is committing the Cardinal Sin, to wit, Do Not Run Out of Cash, and you’re more likely to do this the more you cut margins to the bone. Clearly, Carillion has a track record in this.

The confusing thing for me is that, right now, government departments are focussed on sustainability in terms of their own performance, but have perhaps allowed their eye to be taken off the balll when looking into the sustainability of their own suppliers.

[flatandy]

I think Mids's assessment at the top of this page is pretty much spot on.

[perrykneeham]

I wouldn't worry about it too much: the troops will be issued with new polo shirts and fleeces and everything will just plod on. It's the nature of the beast.

[perrykneeham]

I sent out a couple of messages to former colleague who were balls-deep into Carillion as subcontractors to ask if they were okay.

Deathly silence.

[flatandy]

I know of a few people (friends of friends) who're utterly f**k*d by Carillion. Apparently the company were already utterly crappy and useless about paying subcontractors: 90 day terms normally extended to 120, presumably because Carillion had cashflow problems all along.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2018 13:48:27 GMT nobody said:

I think some think they were to big to fail.

They should learn the lessons of history.


I’m sure the Remoaners will find somewhere to lay the blame.

What the fcuk? You just can't stop bleating can you.

[nobody]

Jan 15, 2018 17:06:06 GMT @oneofthelessergods said:

Jan 15, 2018 13:48:27 GMT nobody said:

I think some think they were to big to fail.

They should learn the lessons of history.


I’m sure the Remoaners will find somewhere to lay the blame.

What the fcuk? You just can't stop bleating can you.

Get a grip

[Deleted]

"When right-wing economists tell me there is no such thing as neoliberalism – that it is a figment of the left’s imagination, a meaningless insult or a catch-all phrase – from now I’m just going say the word Carillion. In fact, if it would fit, I would get the word tattooed across my knuckles.

The construction, services and facilities management firm went bust today, leaving tens of thousands of workers uncertain about their jobs – and certain that their pensions will be cut.

Carillion’s entire history encapsulates the rise and fall of neoliberalism. It was a machine for turning taxes collected by the state into profits for shareholders, bonuses for managers and, in the process, eviscerating democratic control."

link

[perrykneeham]

So, it's Labour's fault, yeah?

[moggyonspeed]

Partly, yes.

[Deleted]

How?

The chairman of Carillion was a key donor to the Tory party - which is why the Tory government kept giving them contracts.

[jimboky]

Corney capitalism should not be confused with capitalism,

[perrykneeham]

Carillion were filling their boots with off-the-books public money waaaaay before the Tories got back into power.

[flatandy]

This is exactly what's wrong with having public services provided by private companies at low-cost bids. There's no actual capitalism at work, there are de facto monopolies.

It precedes this Tory government, although they've been particularly bad about implementing it
It precedes the previous Labour government, although they encouraged it and pushed it, mostly for creative accounting reasons
It was instigated by the Tory government before that.

Tories, Labour and (while in coalition) Lib Dems, have all gone along with this.

[perrykneeham]

I think lack of oversight is a problem. That, and far too many public sector types have one eye on their next job or are flat out venal.

[flatandy]

Hmm. Private sector types aren't venal and don't have their eyes on the next job?

[mids]

I'm sure they do but public sector types, who include MPs, look on enviously at the lifestyles of their private sector chums and think, "Hmmmm, I deserve that".

Anyway, has there ever been a time when large infrastructure works or house building was actually done entirely by public sector employees? I've no idea.

[perrykneeham]

They're not being paid to be gamekeepers.

I"m not saylng that the private sector isn't heaving with crooks, but that is to be expected. We demand probity from public servant as a condition of holding a job where public money is at stake. If you want to be a streetfighter, go into the street.

[voice]