Gazan Ceasefire

[RMPNCO]

Just reading that on the BBC avi. Hamas care so much for the Palestinian people that they are prepared to put them even further in danger. No one (particularly the Palestinian Authority) can control Hamas which is why Israel have to be left to exterminate the rabid dog once and for all.

[sweet soul]

Hamas wont cease fire

[limeylily]

[quote author=avieder board=news thread=257 post=4517 time=1232266265]The time in Israel is now 10:00.
8 hours after the unilateral (conditional !!!) cease fire by Israel.

6 (SIX) rockets have been fired by Hamas at Israel !!!!!!

They did not attack the Israeli forces in Gaza. They shot the rockets at Israeli towns.[/quote][/i]

And some fell short of the target like the one that killed the two Gazan schoolgirls. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/3966259/Palestinian-rocket-kills-two-Gaza-schoolgirls.html

Funny how none of the anti Israel posters cried their crocodile tears over Hamas killing Palestinian children - just as they didn't protest about Hamas leaders occupying the shelters and leaving children unprotected. The stench of hypocrisy is overpowering.

[auldhippy]

What the pro Israeli crowd always deliberately forget to mention is the 40 years of illegal & oppresive occupation of Palestine or the three & a half years of seige that they have imposed upon Gazans. A seige whereby electricity, food, water, medicine has been deliberatly kept by their captors at below subsistance levels. Every occupation throiughout history has had its insurgency and this modern day "Warsaw Ghetto" is no different. Just as the Warsaw revolvters no choice in where they made their stand neither do Hamas. The casualty ration of one hundred to one which compares to the Nazis with unimaginable familiarity.

The Palestinians didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate Israel, they've been given more than adaquate reason.

As to this ceasefire, contrary to what Avieder maintains Hamas did fight with the IDF in Raifi before lobbing rockets at Sderot, the ceasefire is more about getting international pressure of Israel before a new President hits the ground running. A unilateral ceasefire where the unilateral side promises to hit back is no ceasefire. The idea that someone who has just murdered 420 children turns all Ghandiesque all of a sudden is ludicrous.

[avieder]

Jan 18, 2009 10:05:07 GMT sweet soul said:

Hamas wont cease fire

Until Hamas ceases (nice avatar...)

[avieder]

Jan 18, 2009 11:10:59 GMT auldhippy said:

What the pro Israeli crowd always deliberately forget to mention is the 40 years of illegal & oppresive occupation of Palestine or the three & a half years of seige that they have imposed upon Gazans. A seige whereby electricity, food, water, medicine has been deliberatly kept by their captors at below subsistance levels. Every occupation throiughout history has had its insurgency and this modern day "Warsaw Ghetto" is no different. Just as the Warsaw revolvters no choice in where they made their stand neither do Hamas. The casualty ration of one hundred to one which compares to the Nazis with unimaginable familiarity.

The Palestinians didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate Israel, they've been given more than adaquate reason.

As to this ceasefire, contrary to what Avieder maintains Hamas did fight with the IDF in Raifi before lobbing rockets at Sderot, the ceasefire is more about getting international pressure of Israel before a new President hits the ground running. A unilateral ceasefire where the unilateral side promises to hit back is no ceasefire. The idea that someone who has just murdered 420 children turns all Ghandiesque all of a sudden is ludicrous.

Are you and "Captain B" the same person?

1) "the 40 years of illegal & oppresive occupation of Palestine"
The conquests from Egypt and Jordan of Gaza and the West Bank during the Six Day War are legal according to any law. The inability to return Gaza to Egypt is no fault of Israel. If you ever care to CHECK !!!. Anyway, those areas were never became "Palestine" under Arab rule So Israel could not possibly occupy something that doesn't exist.

2) "...seige that they have imposed upon Gazans" I explained today, maybe in another thread, that a "seige" such as that word implies is nonexistent.
They have a long border (and tunnels..) with Egypt.
Supplies and humanitarian aid keeps flowing (unless intercepted by Hamas) as does electric power (80% from Israel). True, entrance to Israel from this Terror nest is difficult as would be to any other country with such neighbors.

3) "electricity, food, water, medicine has been deliberatly kept by their captors at below subsistance levels. " - A LIE (unless you call Hamas 'their captors' - but you are not smart enough to realize that...)

[avieder]

Jan 18, 2009 11:10:59 GMT auldhippy said:

What the pro Israeli crowd always deliberately forget to mention is the 40 years of illegal & oppresive occupation of Palestine or the three & a half years of seige that they have imposed upon Gazans. A seige whereby electricity, food, water, medicine has been deliberatly kept by their captors at below subsistance levels. Every occupation throiughout history has had its insurgency and this modern day "Warsaw Ghetto" is no different. Just as the Warsaw revolvters no choice in where they made their stand neither do Hamas. The casualty ration of one hundred to one which compares to the Nazis with unimaginable familiarity.

The Palestinians didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate Israel, they've been given more than adaquate reason.

As to this ceasefire, contrary to what Avieder maintains Hamas did fight with the IDF in Raifi before lobbing rockets at Sderot, the ceasefire is more about getting international pressure of Israel before a new President hits the ground running. A unilateral ceasefire where the unilateral side promises to hit back is no ceasefire. The idea that someone who has just murdered 420 children turns all Ghandiesque all of a sudden is ludicrous.

4) "The Palestinians didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate Israel" True. It started when the Brits got the "Mandate to create a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine" 1920's. Until then the Zionist Movement and the resident Arab population of Palestine were getting along quite well....

5) "...Hamas did fight with the IDF in Raifi before lobbing rockets at Sderot" Half truth: They were lobbing rockets at Israeli citizens ALL THE TIME and using schools, Mosques and UNWRA installations as basses-for that lobbing. When IDF entered Gaza and Raffa they indeed did fight back to some degree. Mainly by bootstrapping houses ....
They could not fire rockets AFTER they fought the IDF mainly because they lost the battle.

[avieder]

7) "....A unilateral ceasefire where the unilateral side promises to hit back is no ceasefire."
With this I do agree.
The word combination unilateral & ceasefire is indeed problematic with an inbuilt contradiction. Not the smartest thing to say or do at this juncture.
In Hebrew it means that I am giving you a chance to stop me beating you - or something similar. Now the question if we continue to battle or not is in your hands.
"a ceasation of hostilities" might be a better term but in English there is atrap word in it....

Anyway, old-hipy-brittles if you could ever take off that arrogant British "I know it all better than you" attitude about MY affirs and look into your own history.....if....if........

[Brittles]

I have come to the conclusion that this Avi chappie is of a deranged mind who will tell any lie to justify the illegality of his country and its mass murder of the people there. I suppose we can put it down to brain washed education.

The lies contained in his last four or five posts are a sick joke but in a way he has shot himself - and his renegade country - in the foot big time as it brought a new name onto this board (and eventually the wider world)

OldHippy said:

"Every occupation throiughout history has had its insurgency and this modern day "Warsaw Ghetto" is no different. Just as the Warsaw revolvters no choice in where they made their stand neither do Hamas. The casualty ration of one hundred to one which compares to the Nazis with unimaginable familiarity."

Warsaw Ghetto .................

Gaza Ghetto ..................

As for a British Mandate to set up the state of Israel your a lying bastrad on that and you know it sonny Jim.

[auldhippy]

Hamas did indeed fire at the IDF in Rafa before launching rockets.

[Psalms]

[cobblers]

Jan 18, 2009 11:10:59 GMT auldhippy said:

What the pro Israeli crowd always deliberately forget to mention is the 40 years of illegal & oppresive occupation of Palestine or the three & a half years of seige that they have imposed upon Gazans.

The Palestinians didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate Israel, they've been given more than adaquate reason.

Another fact this is overlooked is that the Jews have had a continuous presence in Jerusalem for over 3000 years. At the end of the 19th century the idea of returning to their homeland began to take hold with the Jews of the diaspora. As they began to emigrate to the British mandate of Palestine, arabs began to attack them (see 1929 Hebron massacre and others) much as racist skinheads attacked new arrivals to the uk in the 50s 60s 70s and 80s. Before the creation of the state of Israel, Jews were buying up land in the British mandate. With the Holocaust the rate of immigration sped up and then Israel was declared a state. All Israel's neighbours attacked Israel, telling the arabs there to leave to make their job of defeating Israel easier. Simultaneously, Jews were expelled from north african and middle eastern coutnries and came to Israel. Israel won the 1948 war, and again won the 67 war when attacked by Jordan and egypt, conquering and occupying the strategically important west bank (from Jordan) and Gaza strip (rom Egypt).

Israel isn't just figthing 'the Palestinians' it is fightng the whole arab and Islamic worlds. Hamas is sponsored by Iran and Syria, as are Hezbollah.

[auldhippy]

Since the UN Charter war (regardless of who started or won and chronologically Israel started it) has not been a legitimate manner of land acquisition for perfectly understandable reasons. But you knew that!

[Brittles]

[quote author=cobblers board=news thread=257 post=4571 time=1232293962

The Palestinians didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate Israel, they've been given more than adaquate reason.[/quote]

Another fact this is overlooked is that the Jews have had a continuous presence in Jerusalem for over 3000 years. At the end of the 19th century the idea of returning to their homeland began to take hold with the Jews of the diaspora. As they began to emigrate to the British mandate of Palestine, arabs began to attack them (see 1929 Hebron massacre and others) much as racist skinheads attacked new arrivals to the uk in the 50s 60s 70s and 80s. Before the creation of the state of Israel, Jews were buying up land in the British mandate. With the Holocaust the rate of immigration sped up and then Israel was declared a state. All Israel's neighbours attacked Israel, telling the arabs there to leave to make their job of defeating Israel easier. Simultaneously, Jews were expelled from north african and middle eastern coutnries and came to Israel. Israel won the 1948 war, and again won the 67 war when attacked by Jordan and egypt, conquering and occupying the strategically important west bank (from Jordan) and Gaza strip (rom Egypt).

Israel isn't just figthing 'the Palestinians' it is fightng the whole arab and Islamic worlds. Hamas is sponsored by Iran and Syria, as are Hezbollah. [/quote]

I think you'll admit that so have the other tribes i.e. who we now call Arabs, yes they have also lived in Palestine since - and before Biblical times. Whats more they never left their lands in all that time - until they were driven out by European Jews after the 2nd. World War.
The Arabs stayed in their country - Palestine, they never left to go to Europe to peddle their wares like their Jewish cousins.

How would it be if the descendants of British people who have emigrated to Australia, Canada and New Zealand decided to come back in a thousand years and claim land that 'belonged' to their ancestors? They'd be told to fcuk off, would they not?

Oh' and the Arabs of Gaza are not only fighting the Israeli army and air force they are also fighting the world's only super power - the USA.

(How can Israel afford Apache helicopters if they weren't given them free?)

[sweet soul]

Hamas are gonna have 1 weeks cease fire

[Brittles]

Maybe the order for the Israeli ceasefire came from Washington ..............

Can't have children being shot and blown up while we crown our new president, take a week off. ...............

[sweet soul]

And in that week hamas say isreal must pull out of gaza

[RMPNCO]

Hamas are gonna have 1 weeks cease fire

Yeah, just like they observed the last one. They observed it so well that Israel allowed them to fire more than 100 rockets before taking decisive action against them.
But I'm forgetting, Hamas have the the welfare of the Palestinian people at heart, don't they?

[puffin]

We'll have to wait and see on this one.
Both sides have made conditions for holding to the ceasefire that aren't unreasonable.
If both sides can hold to the conditions the other requires then, with international supervision and help, it could work.... maybe.
Here's hoping.

[lawrence]

Well done , Israel ! But stick to it and finish the job kicking their camel-fondling asses !