Tory scum

[ootlg]

Staying with types... I listened to that Tory councillor being questioned about Grenfell and you know, I felt sorry for him. I know he's a so-called 'privileged arsehole' but he answered honestly, possibly too honestly, and one got the impression he wasn't bright enough to be duplicitous but that he was being set up for the fall guy. He didn't seem aware that the blame might lie elsewhere.

[reverend]

HOly sh*t, this is the Labour front bench, Whilst i'm all for telling polititians what you think of them you don't do it in the house of commons and drag the whole institution down to the level of student union political discourse, no wonder Labour are in the mess they are!

[Repat Van]

May 19, 2021 8:11:42 GMT reverend said:

HOly sh*t, this is the Labour front bench, Whilst i'm all for telling polititians what you think of them you don't do it in the house of commons and drag the whole institution down to the level of student union political discourse, no wonder Labour are in the mess they are!

Isn’t that how they always talk in the HoC?

[mids]

Rayner's a joke. I hope she becomes Labour leader.

[ootlg]

Aren't they all a joke in the HoC? That bloke before her was enough to trigger anyone, prissy little arsehole that he was.

[perrykneeham]

May 19, 2021 8:06:11 GMT ootlg said:

Staying with types... I listened to that Tory councillor being questioned about Grenfell and you know, I felt sorry for him. I know he's a so-called 'privileged arsehole' but he answered honestly, possibly too honestly, and one got the impression he wasn't bright enough to be duplicitous but that he was being set up for the fall guy. He didn't seem aware that the blame might lie elsewhere.

Ah, the thing is, as I've said before, the endgame here is to lay the blame at the door of the party with the deepest pockets. Experience tells them that they can tap this for a couple of generations if they can tap into the taxpayer's vein. From what I've seen, this should sit with the PI of the BC surveyor (almost certainly an approved surveyors rather than the LA's man). Problem is that his PI might run to maybe £50M and they'll fight like f**k. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to learn that they were supporting to attack on the LA.

[ootlg]

PI?
BC - borough council?
LA - local authority?

Shouldn't this go back to the 'technician' who cleared the safety of the cladding? Or the person who overrode him?

I get you point absolutely. Follow the money, as they say.

[mids]

Third generation Grenfell Survivor.

[ootlg]

Ah... Insurer?

[mids]

I wonder how long before there's a push to claim for reparations for living under a Tory government?

[perrykneeham]

May 19, 2021 9:55:53 GMT ootlg said:

PI?
BC - borough council?
LA - local authority?

Shouldn't this go back to the 'technician' who cleared the safety of the cladding? Or the person who overrode him?

I get you point absolutely. Follow the money, as they say.

PI - professional indemnity insurance (in case you sign off something and it bites you on the arse).
BC - building control (once the preserve of the council only (district surveyors) but thrown open to privately-appointed "approved" surveyors, acting on their own competence and underwritten by PI).
LA - local authority. The council.

The blame probably lies with the Project Manager who signed this off for a cost saving, unless the manufacturer can be shown to have knowingly misrepresented the fire performance of the materials.

You could argue that Labour are to blame as they deregulated BC.

[ootlg]

"You could argue that Labour are to blame as they deregulated BC."

How did they do this, by reducing professional requirements of surveyors?

[perrykneeham]

May 19, 2021 12:31:37 GMT ootlg said:

"You could argue that Labour are to blame as they deregulated BC."

How did they do this, by reducing professional requirements of surveyors?

They basically said that surveyors outside of the LA's BC department could sign off building work as compliant with the Building Regulations. On the face of it, this was fine: you had to pay the LA for Building Approval (and the Fire Officer) and they were stickler. Also, they were in no rush as it was a closed shop. The idea was that a private Chartered Surveyor would be just as competent as a LA one and their work would be, in effect, guaranteed by their PI if they got it wrong. This would speed up the process of getting BC sign-off. So far, so good. The problem arose when - and any fule couldn't have predicted this - it became a matter of who pays the piper calling the tune. I have seen some very convenient interpretations of the Building Regs., and especially the Fire Regs., which - guess what? - were also deregulated.

If you had to make a - say - Victorian warehouse compliant as an office or residential space, you would have had fuckall chance under the status ante (not without a shedload of expense and loss of character, anyway). But lo! There is an "engineering solution" in the form of more smoke detectors and heat detectors. That cladding? It'll be fine, innit?

[ootlg]

The dangers of privatisation v the dangers of stagnation? There's a lot in that post that crystallises the British, in fact anywhere's dilemma. Personally I find the profit motive the underlying evil here. Shareholders wouldn't agree with me of course.

[mids]

Do they still have clerks of works? Isn't that what they do?

[perrykneeham]

May 19, 2021 15:21:01 GMT mids said:

Do they still have clerks of works? Isn't that what they do?

Clerks of Works tend to deal with internal projects, in England at least. There are two departments which are key to construction: BC and Planning. Never the twain shall meet.

[perrykneeham]

May 19, 2021 14:48:45 GMT ootlg said:

The dangers of privatisation v the dangers of stagnation? There's a lot in that post that crystallises the British, in fact anywhere's dilemma. Personally I find the profit motive the underlying evil here. Shareholders wouldn't agree with me of course.

It's probably more to do with vested interests and keeping your end up. Very British, but also universal. It's just that we've made a national sport of it. That's probably why Westminster is such a swirling cesspool of lobbyists and special interest shills.

[perrykneeham]

Here's a neat real-life example from one of the only actual self-made millionaires that I know personally (that is people who have that kind of money on the hip, rather than in assets).

WKC may recognise this. This bloke, when he was 18, would do casual bar work at Ascot races, running a bar in one of those little corporate paddocks. You know the sort of thing: pissed business folks in their finery. Anyway, all the chairs were set out apart from couple that our man had kept behind the bar for himself and his colleague. At some point a seatless guest asked if he could have one of these chairs. "Oh, and here's a tenner for your troubles ..."

The next day, guess where all of the chairs were?

[ootlg]

Woman denies long Covid is taking toll on fiancé

[ootlg]

Anyone who believes Patel isn't rotten to the core should take time out to read this:

goodlawproject.org/patel-mirza-and-the-middlemen/?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pdl%202805