rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 17, 2021 16:48:58 GMT
and where the hell is vp harris? she's gone missing and joe is squirreled away/hiding at camp david.
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voice
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Post by voice on Aug 17, 2021 16:49:02 GMT
Saw this report last night on just how much of the trillions the US poured into Afghanistan ended up siphoned off by corrupt officials, it was staggering, huge narco stle villas with Trump levels of tackiness, gold toilets you name it. You can bet Ghani and his cohorts left with suitcases stuffed with US $. Odd Rick now thinks the US should have continued with this policy. This is true. It has been a clusterfuck from beginning to end by the USA. I still hold that something had to be done at the outset and that that couldn't be left at smashing the Taliban. The nation-building has been a model of how to get played by shrewd tribesmen (proper, lifelong, cultural politicians, diplomats and leaders) and the exit has been utterly, profoundly, spectacularly dreadful. It is this end bit that we are discussing. There is plenty of shame to go round the parties and the institutions of the US, but the last chapter is certainly Biden's. Oh yeah, going in and slapping AQ was probably the right call, and the whole Bush policy was crap, and the Obama surge was idiotic as was Trumps surrender last year and topped off by Biden underestimating the speed of the collapse. No one has covered themselves in glory here, but there is a scale of shity here and of the 4 (or really 7 US presidents since Reagan who's been f**k**g around in Afghanistan) its insane to Biden being there at the end is the one taking most if the blame for 40 years of US policy. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 17, 2021 16:54:07 GMT
I'm not blaming Biden for anything not on his watch. He does deserve the blame for the stuff on his watch, which is what will be remembered. Cruelly, the start of the campaign will be remembered as a rollicking success.
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Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 17, 2021 16:59:49 GMT
I know I've said this already - but it does need to be said again and again.
The US Intelligence Services - both the Military and CIA have been spectacularly awful on this. I mean really really bad.
Any President can only go on the Intel he's given. And Biden was advised that the Afghan army and Government would hold out.
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voice
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Post by voice on Aug 17, 2021 17:00:25 GMT
Saw an interview with an Afghan journalist last night who was asked why he thought the Taliban could take the entire country is just 3 weeks, and take Kabul with bearly a shot fired. He said in the last 18 months since Trump surrendered the Taliban was going throughout the country negotiating this with local war lords officials and army commanders and basically getting agreement through threats or promises to end corruption and stop the 40 year war that when the time came many would just swap sides or just give up.
That no one in US intelligence figured out they were doing this for 18 months is a bit shocking. Eye was not the ball, just getting out as soon as possible.
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voice
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Post by voice on Aug 17, 2021 17:02:01 GMT
I'm not blaming Biden for anything not on his watch. He does deserve the blame for the stuff on his watch, which is what will be remembered. Cruelly, the start of the campaign will be remembered as a rollicking success. Yeah I wasn't saying you were the one putting all this on him, more the idiot and the far right in the US who have gone full metal hypocrite over how this ended. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 17, 2021 17:04:05 GMT
I still contend that they knew bloody well what was going on, but it suited their purposes.
They're not idiots. It is also not credible that they had this from Biden.
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Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 17, 2021 17:12:03 GMT
you maybe right - but how did this suit their purpose?
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 17, 2021 17:15:20 GMT
and the taliban says thanks to biden for all the military equipment left behind. they can use it or give it to china and russia to study. trump wouldn't have dunkirk'ed it to the taliban.
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Post by flatandy on Aug 17, 2021 17:24:45 GMT
Hahahaha! Yes. The Taliban love the Russians that much, and the stuff the Americans sold to the Afghans was so cutting edge that the Russians want to have a look at it? Hahahaha!
The Americans were stupid but they were clearly selling non-cutting edge hardware to the Afghans. Not a single jet plane. The most offensive aircraft they have is a Black Hawk helicopter, designed in 1972. Looking at the army's hardware is almost as unimpressive - in fact, it makes you wonder how much of those $2trillion dollars are in the pockets of the shareholders of US military equipment companies...
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 17, 2021 17:32:00 GMT
I know I've said this already - but it does need to be said again and again. The US Intelligence Services - both the Military and CIA have been spectacularly awful on this. I mean really really bad. Any President can only go on the Intel he's given. And Biden was advised that the Afghan army and Government would hold out. red lights were flashing from everywhere. apparently he ignored his own experts. it's a real stretch that everyone was this stupid. i have a hunch this fiasco was by design. not the pullout itself, but the incompetent way it was done was by design. |
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Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 17, 2021 17:34:48 GMT
OK - say you're correct.
Who's design - and to what purpose?
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 17, 2021 18:15:12 GMT
you maybe right - but how did this suit their purpose? To get out as quickly as possible and stem the loss of blood and treasure. And prestige. Items 1 and 2 worked. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 17, 2021 18:23:54 GMT
I think that competing interests in the US camp didn't help. I'm no expert but it seems to me that the CIA is always wilfully divorced from the military and civilian efforts. The military and the civilian agencies seem to be focused on the here and now (not necessarily in union) whereas the CIA are looking at broader relationships, regionally and over time. Nobody really wants to hear what the USMC have to say about building communities: close with the enemy and kill them using focused, lethal aggression. That's your job.
That, in turn, may be a function of US government generally.
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voice
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Post by voice on Aug 17, 2021 18:38:55 GMT
I still contend that they knew bloody well what was going on, but it suited their purposes. They're not idiots. It is also not credible that they had this from Biden. Maybe maybe not, but if they knew for 18 months this was happening I'm unsure why it suited both US administeations to do nothing. Remember Trump was desperate to be out by Christmas but the military told him May 1st was the soonest they could get out, Biden seeing what a clusterfuck it all was delayed to August and still it was cluster f**k. I suspect they knew this was coming but it was a ahit sandwich they just had to eat in order not to be wasting more lives and treasure by going back on Trumps surrender and resuming this futile war. |
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Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 17, 2021 20:48:45 GMT
I think this whole exercise was a conspiracy developed by Boris to take the public's eye off his handling of Covid.
and Biden was the shadowy figure in the background.
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 17, 2021 20:57:37 GMT
I blame sharia-abidin' Biden.
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 17, 2021 20:58:34 GMT
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mids
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Post by mids on Aug 17, 2021 21:03:53 GMT
Biden has ruined the world.
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mids
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Post by mids on Aug 17, 2021 21:11:42 GMT
He's also not spoken to anyone other world leader since his catastrophe began.
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