However, there is some sense in the US.

[flatandy]

He's already guaranteed to run - for exactly that reason. You can't make it any more likely.

[flatandy]

A reminder of how Trump is less like Biden and Pence and Clinton, and more like people who've been locked up for years:

Two weeks ago, a federal judge sentenced Robert Birchum, a former Air Force lieutenant colonel, to three years in jail for removing hundreds of secret documents from their authorized locations and storing them in his home and officer’s quarters.

In April, a judge sentenced Jeremy Brown, a former member of U.S. Special Forces, to more than seven years in prison partly for taking a classified report home with him after he retired. The report contained sensitive intelligence, including about an informant in another country.

In 2018, Nghia Hoang Pho received a five-and-a-half year sentence for storing National Security Agency documents at his home. Prosecutors emphasized that Pho was aware he was not supposed to have taken the documents.

These three recent cases are among dozens in which the Justice Department has charged people with removing classified information from its proper place and trying to conceal their actions. That list includes several former high-ranking officials, like David Petraeus and John Deutch, who each ran the C.I.A.

And about why you basically have to charge Trump in this instance, rather than him being singled out for a political prosecution:

Start by thinking about all the other people who had engaged in behavior similar to that for which the ex-president was charged with a crime. If just some of those other people were charged, the ex-president should not be, Trende wrote. Prosecutors have a large amount of discretion about which cases to bring, and they should err on the side of not indicting a former president because of the political turmoil it is likely to cause, he argued.

But if the ex-president did something that would have caused anybody else to be charged with a crime, he should be, too. “The president shouldn’t be above the law,” Trende explained.

There is ample reason to believe that the document case against Trump falls into the second category: Had any other American done what he is accused of doing, that person would almost certainly be prosecuted. “The real injustice,” the editors of The Economist magazine wrote yesterday, “would have been not to indict him.”

Consider: Prosecutors have accused Trump of removing classified documents from government property and bringing them home with him. Those documents contained sensitive information, such as military plans and intelligence about foreign militaries. Trump made clear to others that he knew he should not have the documents and took steps to mislead investigators about them, prosecutors claim.

It’s true — as Trump’s defenders repeatedly point out — that other government officials, including President Biden, Mike Pence and Hillary Clinton, have also mishandled classified information without having been charged with crimes. But those cases were very different from Trump’s. The transgressions seemed to be accidental. The officials returned the documents when asked. They did not try to mislead federal investigators.

[mids]

It seems there's a chance Trump will win. How bad does the incumbo have to be to even make that a possibility?

[flatandy]

Almost every election there's a chance that either main party can win in the US. In a neutral environment, you'd think Trump would probably lose - I'd put it at about 3:2 odds of defeat. But if the economy goes even slightly down the shitter, then I think Trump becomes odds on favourite.

Trump is already heavy favourite to win his primary, too, of course.

[flatandy]

This court case is important for, you know, justice and all that.

But I think it has somewhere between "Almost" and "Exactly" zero impact on the primary and on the general election.

[mids]

I don't get that either. The other one, de Santos(?) seems like a reasonable fellow. He should be the gubernatorial bellwether electoral college or whatever it's called.

[flatandy]

It's weird, but Trump's adoring supporters believe his "L'etat, C'est Moi" stuff. And they are the dominant part of the Republican Party these days. See Rick's comments on here, where he now sees no wrong doing of note.

And the problem is that once it comes to a general election, the rest of the Republican Party and their voters will fall fully in line behind Trump, no matter what they think personally.

You can already see that playing out with DeSantis now. He absolutely completely refuses to criticize Trump over this and when commenting on it is talking about how wrong it is to prosecute him.

Which means that Trump's main opponent is basically throwing his hands in the air and not actually trying to compete against Trump. With nobody on the right attacking him, pointing out how he should not be President, Trump is getting basically a free ride back to the nomination.

[rick49]

Did Biden have documents that detailed how to attack Iran, detailed foreign allies nuclear capabilities? And then wave them around in front of non-vetted people?

Did Biden try and hide documents taken, tell his bodyman to conceal them, hide them on planes and so on?

I think you know the answer and therefore know why it's not comparable.

the point is we have a two-tiered system of justice. one for republicans and one for the donkeys. as vice president, biden took classified documents and hid them everywhere at his home. as vp he couldn't even claim exec privilege and he still got away with it.

Presidential records found right in Clinton’s drawer

"A 2012 court case denying access to White House audiotapes kept in former President Bill Clinton’s sock drawer after he left office could help the Trump legal team in its battle to retrieve records that the FBI seized from Mar-a-Lago this month.

The 10-year-old court ruling, issued by U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson, rejected arguments by a conservative watchdog group that sought access to dozens of tapes recorded by Mr. Clinton and historian Taylor Branch during his administration."
www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/22/tapes-stored-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-affec/

americans trust in government is probably lower now than it was during the vietnam war. this will drive it even lower. your law and order has to apply to both sides.

[flatandy]

Jun 14, 2023 14:01:08 GMT rick49 said:

I think you know the answer and therefore know why it's not comparable.

the point is we have a two-tiered system of justice. one for republicans and one for the donkeys. as vice president, biden took classified documents and hid them everywhere at his home. as vp he couldn't even claim exec privilege and he still got away with it.

I refer you to the sentence above yours in italics.

You know it's not two tiered. You know that Biden and Pence having documents that they then returned is not the same. You know that Pence is was Trump's VP and is not going to be prosecuted so you know your argument is nonsense. You know that if Trump had returned the documents when asked, had provided easy access, then the authorities would almost certainly not be bothering with this even though it was an obvious national security risk.

[voice]

As with a lot of things, it's not the action itself but the cover up that gets you in bother.

The other aspect is Trump was utterly convinced if he put his hand on it he owned it, despite being told no you don't. And even if his absurd claim that he could declassify by thought alone those documents still belonged in the national archive and not in his toilet.

[voice]

Indicted felon Donald J. Trump has the right to remain silent, but, apparently, the inability.

REMINDER: Donald could have just returned the classified documents he had no authority to have after being President when asked to and *nothing* would have happened to him.

But he is just that stupid to do it.

[mids]

[ootlg]

Voice has got a man bun?

[mids]

Man bum, more like. And not his own either!

[rick49]

as vice president biden took classified documents home and did not return them when he left office and became citizen biden. he violated the law and the fbi and doj had to search his home to find them. but he got a pass. two tier system of justice.

[voice]

Haven't you cried yourself out yet?

[rick49]

glub.

[flatandy]

Still not acknowledging that Biden acted like Pence - same rules and standards both both Rs and Ds? And that Trump actively showing national security documents to unvented people is entirely different? Trump actively and deliberately trying to conceal the documents and moving them rather than asking the security services to search and see what needs to be removed is a completely different response?

[rick49]

uncle joe earned his rep as the dumbest man in washington dc. who knows who he showed the classified documents to.
point is he didn't return them and the fbi and doj had to go to his home to get them back. point is biden and trump did the same thing and biden gets a pass while trump faces life in prison.

[flatandy]

Well, the thing is that we actually do know who Trump showed his stolen classified documents to.

We also know that Trump knew he had them and knew he shouldn't have them.

Neither of these things is true of Pence or Biden.

Are you still unaware of the difference or just not willing to admit it?