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Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:42:23 GMT
"Peaceful transition to a Hamas government"
hahaha
"Nothing and nobody, except through the tunnels, gets in or out unless it suits Israel"
And that includes rockets
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Post by omnipleasant on Jan 26, 2009 15:43:23 GMT
Pathetic from the BBC.
It's a pro-human appeal, not pro-Hamas or even pro-Palestinian.
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Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:46:25 GMT
The aid agencies who are conducting the appeal have crossed the line between political and simple aid work. I can udnerstand why the Beeb would not want to be seen to be endorsing their political perspective by running their appeal.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 26, 2009 20:06:38 GMT
There is a humanitarian disaster in Gaza. To pander to the terrorist state which destroyed Gaza is an unjustifiable interference with the work of the Disasters Emergency Committee. Support for the victims of disaster in no way involves endorsement of any political view. Attempting to hinder this support does involve appeasement of the perpetrators.
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After an 18 month blockade of Gaza and three weeks of heavy shelling the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is now completely overwhelming. ...
Electricity - supplies to Gaza are erratic at best with 75% of the area cut off completely. There is a significant public health risk arising out of the almost collapse of Gaza’s water and sewage system, the running of which is dependent on electricity.
Water - Around 500,000 people are without running water with 37% of Gaza’s water wells not working effectively and fuel reserves depleted due to restrictions on access and damage to pipes.
At least 412 Children have been killed and 1,855 injured
60% of the population is living in poverty
1.1 million people are dependent upon aid to survive.
Health - The capacity of the health system has been significantly reduced due to the damage of at least 21 clinics. Ten primary health care clinics are functioning as emergency clinics and hospitals and intensive care units continue to treat the mass casualties.
DEC
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avieder
New Member
never lie
Posts: 8,871
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Post by avieder on Jan 26, 2009 20:28:21 GMT
Fairly put questions deserve a fair reply, Andy:
a) There is NO need for MONEY. The Hamas is rich beyond imagination.[/i]
So, because Hamas is rich, we must assume that Gazans are not in need of help? This is funny because I'm pretty sure Hamas doesn't have billions of dollars needed to rebuild Gaza. But even if it did, it's pretty apparent from the shithole Gaza is that Hamas are not spending their money on humanitarian aid, which suggests to me all the more need for humanitarian aid.
Quite right! the Gazans DO need help. Mainly help to get rid of Hamas Terror.
My point is that once you donate money - any money, it will find its way to the pockets of Hamas. Just as all the previous funds were. Even the UNWRA trucks that used to come through Israel were confiscated by Hamas and only part of their cargo found its way to the needy Arabs by UNWRA.
The mechanism is very similar to the Mafia: Threaten the lives of the UN people, give them back a fraction of the cargo so that they will be silent
b) The devastation due to the war is mainly of Hamas instalations or that Hamas used.
You mean, say, like UN Schools that Hamas hid in, or hospitals that treated Hamas members as well as the rest of the Palestinian population? And because these are "used" by Hamas it's fine to punish everyone else?
Yes, that is exactly what I mean, but not your interpretation of the facts.
If Hamas uses these facilities as launching pads for rockets on Israeli towns or as fighting posts then they forfeit their immunity from a military retaliation. Even Boy-Scouts understand this reasoning.
As to Shiefa Hospital: Hamas Headquarters and rocket storage were placed in the basement UNDER THE C H I L D R E N's Ward. The Hamas leaders who hid there took the white coats of the Doctors and nurses. Do you comprehend the sheer horror of such acts.
Notice also that they use that tactics against the Israeli army. I suppose it would not have been so effective in Iraq, for example....Nevertheless outmost care was taken to to harm civilians.
An Italian reporter said the number of dead that Hamas claims (1300 civilians) are actually 400-500 mostly Hamas fighters and, alas, few innocent civilians who were used as live shields
c) The channels by which those donations (money or goods) will have to pass are through Hamas who will make sure that the "porvety" will remain so that the Media can continue to transmit those pictures and the donations will keep coming.
Which is why you should give to direct aid agencies like MSF or ICRC or whatever, for something like this.
I agree.
That said, I'd rather the DEC appeal wasn't Gaza specific and offered to rebuild and give humanitarian help to either side in this conflict. As it happens, that would actually turn out to be almost exclusively Gaza, as far less of Israel is fcuked by this. But at least the appeal could claim to be non-partisan.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 26, 2009 20:47:57 GMT
There is NO need for MONEY. The Hamas is rich beyond imagination. A Eder Dear Windbag, don't just leave it to your imagination. What is the income of Hamas? If Hamas uses these facilities as launching pads for rockets on Israeli towns or as fighting posts then they forfeit their immunity from a military retaliation. Let's bring the suspected war criminals (of either side) to trial to determine what the facts are in this imaginative view of the invasion. By bombarding a civilian area from land, sea and air and crossing the border to demolish homes, mosques, schools, hospitals and family homes, Israel is displaying its credentials as a terrorist state. Which is why you should give to direct aid agencies like MSF or ICRC or whatever, for something like this. No Western donors give money to Hamas. That said, I'd rather the DEC appeal wasn't Gaza specific and offered to rebuild and give humanitarian help to either side in this conflict. A charitable appeal is justified where the government doesn't have the resources to deal with the situation. Nevertheless, there are ongoing appeals to provide financial support for Israel. In addition to the billions of dollars which US taxpayers send to Israel, there are further billions of dollars in private tax-deductable donations.
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avieder
New Member
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Posts: 8,871
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Post by avieder on Jan 26, 2009 22:00:03 GMT
#66: "There is NO need for MONEY. The Hamas is rich beyond imagination. A Eder
Dear Windbag, ...."
I was just wandering, does this forum also disqualify participants for rude language ;-) ?
You keep topping your own records for the silliest, non-relevant posts Berty boy
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Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 23:08:26 GMT
"By bombarding a civilian area from land, sea and air and crossing the border to demolish homes, mosques, schools, hospitals and family homes, Israel is displaying its credentials as a terrorist state."
Terrorist state blahdiblah. What is Sudan then? How come we never hear you talking about Sudan where the death toll and conditions in general are infitely worse than in Gaza, where the problems are largely of the citizens' own making? And if mosques schools, hospitals etc targets of the IDF it is because Hamas has deliberately made them so.
"After an 18 month blockade of Gaza and three weeks of heavy shelling the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is now completely overwhelming. ...
Electricity - supplies to Gaza are erratic at best with 75% of the area cut off completely. There is a significant public health risk arising out of the almost collapse of Gaza’s water and sewage system, the running of which is dependent on electricity.
Water - Around 500,000 people are without running water with 37% of Gaza’s water wells not working effectively and fuel reserves depleted due to restrictions on access and damage to pipes.
At least 412 Children have been killed and 1,855 injured
60% of the population is living in poverty
1.1 million people are dependent upon aid to survive.
Health - The capacity of the health system has been significantly reduced due to the damage of at least 21 clinics. Ten primary health care clinics are functioning as emergency clinics and hospitals and intensive care units continue to treat the mass casualties."
With such hyperbolic and hysterical rhetoric it is understandable why the BBC felt it had to distance itself from the DEC campaign. Palestinians are the largest recipients of aid per capita in the world. Shame the powers that be cannot see their way to spending that money other than in the pursuance of a genocidal, unremittingly violent course of conduct paid for in the blood of its citizens with or without their consent.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 26, 2009 23:24:33 GMT
I was just wandering, does this forum also disqualify participants for rude language ;-) ? Whereas you deserve not a word of mockery for your endless deceitful drivel. You certainly have the mindset of a Holocaust denier. What you are denying is the Nakba, the ethnic cleanisng of Arab Palestinians to make room for European Jews (like your family). The existence of Gaza is a permanent reminder of those hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who lost their homes to Israel, who fled or were driven out through fear or Israeli ethnic cleansing 60 years ago, when tidal waves of refugees had washed over Europe in the aftermath of the Second World War and when a bunch of Arabs kicked out of their property didn't worry the world.tinyurl.com/bdojvm |
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 26, 2009 23:31:10 GMT
With such hyperbolic and hysterical rhetoric it is understandable why the BBC felt it had to distance itself from the DEC campaign. What is your Holocaust denier mentality denying? After an 18 month blockade of Gaza and three weeks of heavy shelling the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is now completely overwhelming. ...
Electricity - supplies to Gaza are erratic at best with 75% of the area cut off completely. There is a significant public health risk arising out of the almost collapse of Gaza’s water and sewage system, the running of which is dependent on electricity.
Water - Around 500,000 people are without running water with 37% of Gaza’s water wells not working effectively and fuel reserves depleted due to restrictions on access and damage to pipes.
At least 412 Children have been killed and 1,855 injured
60% of the population is living in poverty
1.1 million people are dependent upon aid to survive.
Health - The capacity of the health system has been significantly reduced due to the damage of at least 21 clinics. Ten primary health care clinics are functioning as emergency clinics and hospitals and intensive care units continue to treat the mass casualties.
DEC |
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radge
New Member
Posts: 1,776
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Post by radge on Jan 26, 2009 23:36:29 GMT
I dont know about this. Part of me feels the BBC did the right thing because however impartial people think they are, they are still one of the two most impartial broadcasters on the face of the planet, and just having a news caster who at least tries to be impartial, is something to be supported.
But then again if they have a bit of legislation saying...bla bla bla...(i did read it its just im drubnk) then i also think they should stand by that legislation.
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avieder
New Member
never lie
Posts: 8,871
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Post by avieder on Jan 27, 2009 6:08:39 GMT
Bertrus #68: "The existence of Gaza is a permanent reminder of those hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who lost their homes to Israel, who fled or were driven out through fear or Israeli ethnic cleansing 60 years ago, when tidal waves of refugees had washed over Europe in the aftermath of the Second World War and when a bunch of Arabs kicked out of their property didn't worry the world."
Do your eyes see what your fingers are typing?
Just to jog your memory a bit: In those 60 odd years a few wars, natural disasters and political upheavals have created tens of millions of REAL refugees in the world.
All A L L have found the way to rebuild their lives.
Here is a short list for the younger generation and/or the weak minded participnts:
The Jews who survived the European Holocaust, Jews from Arab countries, The ethnic wars in Algeria and Africa in the 1950's, Korea + Vietnam - North Vs. South, The Balkans, The crash of the Soviet Union that resulted with millions of refugees from Eastern Europe,
Earthquakes, floods, a Tsunami all over the world.....
ALL the refugees have rehabilitated themselves with the aid of both the international community (UN) and their own people.
The ONLY bunch of people who are kept in a "refugee" status are the Arabs that claim to be from former Palestine.
I, personally, know of Arab families from Saudi Arabia for example who have moved into one of those "refugee camps" in Gaza just because of the free food, schooling and housing that they get there.
It has become an industry fueled by the fact that the world is turning a blind eye on this charade because of ......... (fill in the infallable word!)
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 27, 2009 14:27:12 GMT
I, personally, know of Arab families from Saudi Arabia for example who have moved into one of those "refugee camps" in Gaza just because of the free food, schooling and housing that they get there. Irrelevant to the thread I know, but this strikes me as monumentally unlikely. Move from one of the richest nations in the world into an impoverished occasional war zone just for Free Stuff? Are you sure? |
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Post by norfolkdumpling on Jan 27, 2009 15:16:54 GMT
The charity appeal for Gaza is being broadcast on ITV. The BBC ban has generated an enormous amount of publicity. Anyone wanting to donate can do so quite easily without the BBC. It is an organisation with a reputation for impartiality. If it did broadcast the appeal it would be inundated with other appeals. They could, I suppose, set aside a nightly slot for charity appeals to even thing up.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 27, 2009 16:20:25 GMT
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avieder
New Member
never lie
Posts: 8,871
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Post by avieder on Jan 27, 2009 21:37:52 GMT
I, personally, know of Arab families from Saudi Arabia for example who have moved into one of those "refugee camps" in Gaza just because of the free food, schooling and housing that they get there. Irrelevant to the thread I know, but this strikes me as monumentally unlikely. Move from one of the richest nations in the world into an impoverished occasional war zone just for Free Stuff? Are you sure? You know how it is "sad girl" (your avatar). You correspond on the Internet (Skype) and you get know your partner. In most Arab countries the richness is accumulated by a few families and the government has other interests. Saudi Arabia, as it is geographically so large, has areas that the richness ended at their doorstep.... I cannot vouch for the truthfulness as I am a "second vessel" but I can vouch for this segregation between the very rich and very poor from personal experience |
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Gort
New Member
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Post by Gort on Jan 27, 2009 21:51:37 GMT
WELL DONE BBC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,f**k THESE MILITANTS ,,,,,,,,, THERE ARE NO NEED FOR MILLITANTS IN BRITIAN,,,,,,,,YET WE HAVE A FEW MEDIA HOORS,, PEOPLE WANTING TO GET THEMSELVES IN TO THE MEDIA SPOTLIGHT BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE HEROES,,,THEY ARE INDEED ARSEHOLES BECAUSE THE REAL HERO'S ARE THE TROOPS WHO ARE OVER FIGHTING AGAINST THE VERY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE OVER OUR WAY OF LIFE....GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS,,KILL A TALEBAN FOR ME...........
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