Tories extend lead in polls.

[omnipleasant]

You're absolutely right, Jonren. He could indeed have done something.

It would have involved, essentially, protectionism, a rejection of many Thatcherite free-market principles like free trade, more red tape and regulation and a bigger state, much tighter state control over the activities and wealth of the super-rich, etc etc.

Measures you would have agreed with, yes?

[omnipleasant]

"We have a debt now that your granchildren will be paying off."

What do you mean?

[minge tightly]

"a rejection of many Thatcherite free-market principles "

Seems like a lot of companies are rapidly rejecting such principles and angling for a state bail-out

[jonren]

If it was explained that it was absolutely necessary to avert disaster, we would all have bought it. To say he saw this coming in his first year as chancellor is a lie.

[omnipleasant]

"Seems like a lot of companies are rapidly rejecting such principles and angling for a state bail-out"

Yeah. Socialism for the rich.

Fcuking cnuts.

[flatandy]

I really don't understand why the government wants to save the car industry.

[omnipleasant]

To say that Brown has claimed he "saw it all coming" is an outright lie, Jonren.

[flatandy]

I don't see why regulating the banking sector, which apparently Gordon wanted to do but couldn't really be bothered with to save the world, would necessarily be protectionist.

[flatandy]

He did say that he foresaw the problems 10 years ago and proposed a magic early warning system, but didn't actually do anything about it.

[omnipleasant]

Andy - I suspect it's a number of reasons. 1) it's essentially a reasonably healthy industry. 2) it's a big chunk of the economy which CAN be saved with one package, unlike most sectors. 3) lots of jobs in key seats for Labour.

[flatandy]

Is it healthy? We make cars which kill the planet, and make profits for Japanese and French and German companies. Why save them?

[minge tightly]

There is a very good argument for saving those sectors of industry that are highly skilled and where the loss of skilled employees would be diffiult to replace once the upturn comes (Eventually).

Don't think the car industry here warrants that mind.

There is the temptation to attach conditions on a car bail-out though, such as environmentally sound motors ruuning on electricity. That would however, require a system of electrical forecourts across the nation.

[jonren]

Thanks, Andy. Pehaps Omni will withdraw his accusation of me lying. In nearly seven years on this forum, that is one thing I have not done.

[jonren]

" Car firms get £2.3bn loan package"

news.bbc.co.uk/

[newyorker]

How conservative is Ronald Reagan on the scale of British politics?


Find the guy that matches and vote for him!

[omnipleasant]

David Cameron is just about as rightwing as Reagan, New Yorker, you'd like him.

[jonren]

Norman Tebbit would do for me. Unfortunately, he is too old.

[jonren]

" Car firms get £2.3bn loan package"


It is a loan. What happens if the car makers default? They will default unless the public start buying cars again and with most people at their credit limit, they won't buy. Remember, as I pointed out two years ago, personal debt would be the forerunner of the trouble we are in. Remember my "economy floating on a sea of debt" rant? We now see the results of uncontrolled debt and foolish lending. I await some senior bankers getting sacked. Fat chance. The pigs are getting millions in bonuses.

[omnipleasant]

It's loan guarantees, Jonren. They will only get the cash if companies go under. It's designed to get them moving more than stop them going under. The main problem isn't with "people at their credit limit" either, it's with credit impossible to come by even for solvent people / businesses.

That said, I'm mixed on the whole thing. It has it's merits, and is a low risk strategy for potentially high reward (lots of jobs saved, boost to the economy etc). But I'm not entirely sure it's necessary.

[jonren]

Its the ordinary man and woman that buy cars, Omni. Without sales, there is no car industry. In the news at one there was a car plant lot, I'm not sure which, with hundreds lying awaiting requests from dealers that are not coming.