World 10,000 years old say Brits

[omnipleasant]

There was no "before" the Big Bang according to the theory though Feral, that's the point. There was just absolutely Nothing.

And I reckon they do have more fundamental understanding - it comes from doing experiments that either support or knock down their theories.

[feral]

I dont see how you CAN test some theories though to see if they work .Experiments are all well and good but they're still just that .
I suppose I'll just have to try and stick around long enough till someone gets it together to sail off the end of the universe and comes back and tells me what's there .And who made it

[feral]

YES But who put the nothing there in that case

[VikingHumpingWitch]

How do you put nothing somewhere? You can't pick up nothing to move it around because it's not there.

[omnipleasant]

There was nothing for someone to "put" there Feral. There was just. Nothing. Anywhere.

More..

"This also is more than theory. Observations are consistent with the idea, and calculations totaling up all the matter and all the gravity in the observable universe indicate that the two values seem to precisely counterbalance. All matter plus all gravity equals zero. So the universe could come from nothing because it is, fundamentally, nothing"

[feral]

Why is there something rather than nothing?

Its not the something out of nothing I find difficult .It's the nothing I have problems with.And I suspect all those clever clogs do as well ..which is why they say its beyond our comprehension .It just seems to me to be a very convenient stop point

[feral]

Just you wait .Another few years and it'll turn out it WAS some little grey haired old man who started it all off

[yord]

intent

[omnipleasant]

Yeah but that goes back to what I said earlier - I think it's impossible for the human mind to comprehend "nothing", which is why we invent God to fill the void.

[feral]

Mind you ...I've always suspected that last bit :
So the universe could come from nothing because it is, fundamentally, nothing

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Am I weird then, because for me it is very easy to imagine that before there was something in a place, there was nothing there. If I look at an empty spot on my desk it has nothing there. I can put a cup on it and now there is a cup on it, but before that there was nothing. God, maybe I have a natural aptitude for quantum physics, now that would be a surprise.

(The above example omits to mention that actually I cannot imagine a spot on my desk having nothing on it, but that's about my desk tidiness and not the issue at hand.)

[omnipleasant]

"Another few years and it'll turn out it WAS some little grey haired old man who started it all off"

And then the question will be - who or what made the little grey haired man? Which will bring us to the same place. At least proper scientific theories like this one go someway to breaking up that pointless intellectual circle.

[feral]

Feb 3, 2009 17:31:12 GMT @omnipleasant said:

Yeah but that goes back to what I said earlier - I think it's impossible for the human mind to comprehend "nothing", which is why we invent God to fill the void.

Oh yea ..a convenient name to explain away things .But then perhaps " nothing" is that as well .

[feral]

Andthen the question will be - who or what made the little grey haired man?

nope ..not if you say the little grey haired man was always there

[yord]

" If I look at an empty spot on my desk it has nothing there. I can put a cup on it and now there is a cup on it, but before that there was nothing "

Your perceptions can not be relied on . Ask a thousand witnesses to this event of cup and desk and you'll get 100s of different preceptions

[feral]

If I look at an empty spot on my desk it has nothing there

Nope ..thats not quite right .Your empty desk doesnt have nothing there .It just doesnt have an object on it that you can percieve

[flatandy]

Feb 3, 2009 17:04:31 GMT feral said:

It's your limited understanding.

Quite probably .However ,I find it somewhat ridiculous when people who's understanding is as limited as mine come up with different theories that they feel explains everything.It's ALL theory

See. Bizarre scientific relativism. My theory, that I came up with thanks to, er, you know, guesswork, is of exactly the same value as the theory of proper scientists who've done all the difficult maths and understand all the science.

It's not. Theories are not all equal.

[tarrant]

Feb 3, 2009 17:27:07 GMT @omnipleasant said:

. Observations are consistent with the idea, and calculations totaling up all the matter and all the gravity in the observable universe indicate that the two values seem to precisely counterbalance. All matter plus all gravity equals zero. So the universe could come from nothing because it is, fundamentally, nothing"

Sorry Omni. But that isn't true.

Calculations indicate that there should be considerably more matter than is actually observed.

Only 4% of the observable matter has been accounted for.

The remainder is currently explained by a hypothetical Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

There is no evidence yet that these exist.

[tarrant]

This article has some information on the subject:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

[feral]

It's not. Theories are not all equal.

I didnt say they were