Golliwogs, By Appointment to HM the Queen

[tarrant]

Feb 6, 2009 13:09:11 GMT flatandy said:

Wrong. Again. It was a common term of racist abuse in the 70s and 80s, and the term's meaning hasn't changed. It probably can't change as gollywogs became racist charicatures themselves.

Rubbish.

[feral]

Actually ,correction again .I'm not fighting for me rights at all .I just find omni's and Andys ( et all )stance highly amusing and quite pathetic in a sad sort of way

[omnipleasant]

"incase someone picks up on perfectly innocent actions or deeds and accuses us of racism."

Golliwogs? Perfectly innocent?

Yeah I suppose you're right. I'll go and buy one now. I'll put it next to my equally non-racist 'hook-nosed yiddodoll'. It's sooo cute, with it's massive nose and devil horns and clutch of money in it's hand.

[flatandy]

Feb 6, 2009 13:09:57 GMT @cobblers said:

Is the word 'eskimo' racist?

Not really, when used in Britain, because we are largely unaware of the differences. But if you were Canadian knew the difference and were describing non-eskimo native arctic people as eskimos then yes, it probably is.

[flatandy]

Feb 6, 2009 13:09:23 GMT @tarrant said:

The effect of the long list of advantages being given to some groups is to cause resentment among others.

British people are not racist. There is no racism in British culture. The opposite.

Point 1 is bizarre non-sequitor.

Point 2 is just wrong.

[feral]

Not really, when used in Britain, because we are largely unaware of the differences. But if you were Canadian knew the difference and were describing non-eskimo native arctic people as eskimos then yes, it probably is.

You can't have it both ways ,Andy .You said earlier on that it was the language ,the word itself that is racist .Now you're saying it isnt but depends on where used and who by .Ummmm, which is actually agreeing with what Ive been saying all along

[mids]

Is Jap used to describe a Japanese person racist?

[flatandy]

I've said it before. It depends where it's used. In Britain, Paki and Gollywog are racist. In, say, Australia, Paki is far less offensive, and presumably they haven't an idea what a gollywog is.

In Britain, "nigger" doesn't carry anything like the level of offense that it does in the US, because it doesn't come with anything like the baggage.

[sweet soul]

Eskimo is racist? Thats a first to me.
Golliwogs was created unracist many years ago for black and white kids to own and love. Just like gonks .

[feral]

I've said it before. It depends where it's used

YES .exactly .So take it just that wee step further cos if youre agreeing that it depends on where used then it is highly hypocritical to not include who uses it and why.In fact you did include that for the word eskimo

[flatandy]

I still haven't worked out why you would want to use racist language, though. Why would you defend the right to use it? What benefit comes from it? To you, I mean?

[flatandy]

It's usually culture specific, Fez. In Canada not knowing the distinctions of native Canadians is probably racist. In Britain, paki is clearly a racist word where it isn't in other countries.

It's not about which individual uses the word. It's about how the word is perceived in a particular culture. So everyone in the UK knows not to use paki or golliwog. And knows they will cause offense because people are still familiar with having that term of abuse used against them.

[sweet soul]

Its not racist. Its just a toys name

[omnipleasant]

"I still haven't worked out why you would want to use racist language, though"

This is the thing that I really can't understand. The only reasons I can see are that people are
1) deliberately racist and offensive
2) heroically anti-PC / childishly "controversial"
3) stupid

[feral]

I still haven't worked out why you would want to use racist language, though. Why would you defend the right to use it? What benefit comes from it? To you, I mean?

I'm not defending the right to use racist language .I'm defending use of a word when it isn't used in a racist manner and therefore isnt bloody racist language .
You use the same arguments as me but just apply them where YOU fancy instead of overall

[sweet soul]

Also , were the Stones racist then for singing ' Honky Tonk Woman'
Of course not!
Was Little Richard attacked for singing ' Good Molly Looks Like A Golly ' ? ?
Why is the Milky Bar kid always white? Oh my!
Anyone PC can make out racism where none is intended!
The question we should ask is why ?
They make the Country more unstable then any racist could. But why? What is there ploy?
Come on u PC lot . SPILL!

[Deleted]

You're not PC then, SS?

[feral]

It's not about which individual uses the word. It's about how the word is perceived in a particular culture. So everyone in the UK knows not to use paki or golliwog. And knows they will cause offense because people are still familiar with having that term of abuse used against them.

Yes, everyone in the UK knows not to use paki or golliwog becaused otherwise someone like yourself or omni will label them racist ..or stupid .Or both .
How can you ever have any sort of equality between races when you have to watch what you bloody say around them .Can you imagine having a mate who you'd like to consider your equal ( for want of a better way of putting it ) but that you have to watch your tongue with in case you say a word that he might deem offensive cos someone else used it offensively years ago . Personally ,I think its demeaning to your friend to think that way .

[flatandy]

Feb 6, 2009 13:36:32 GMT feral said:

I'm not defending the right to use racist language .I'm defending use of a word when it isn't used in a racist manner and therefore isnt bloody racist language .
You use the same arguments as me but just apply them where YOU fancy instead of overall

If you use a word you know to be racist - like nigger or paki - then you are using for one of only 3 reasons, as Omni says above.

If it's stupidity (or ignorance) then you can apologise if someone's offended.

If it's either of the other 2, you're being a thingy.

There is a difference between being a racist and unwittingly using racist language. But once you know the language is racist there's no excuse.

[omnipleasant]

"How can you ever have any sort of equality between races when you have to watch what you bloody say around them "

WT flying F?

You are tying yourself in knots here. It's about not using offensive language. Simple. In the same way you generally wouldn't just call someone a cnut unless you wanted to cause offense, you don't bloody call black people a golliwog.

It's So. Bloody. Simple.