skyways
New Member
Am I not cool?
Posts: 281
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Post by skyways on Feb 7, 2009 17:19:31 GMT
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Post by Victor Meldrew on Feb 7, 2009 17:28:22 GMT
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/25/medicalscience.geneticsThat's better.  Haven't read the article yet, but just looking at the title I can't argue with it. Of course they are genetically the same. They come from the same region and have the same ancestry (e.g. Avram in Judaism, Ibrahim in Islam). The whole Muslim/Judaism thing is like an eternal big and little brother dispute.
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skyways
New Member
Am I not cool?
Posts: 281
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Post by skyways on Feb 7, 2009 17:36:55 GMT
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Post by Victor Meldrew on Feb 7, 2009 17:39:14 GMT
You did it correctly, skyways, but unfortunately, you put the address at the end of the thing. you should have pasted the web address in between them. |
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skyways
New Member
Am I not cool?
Posts: 281
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Post by skyways on Feb 7, 2009 17:42:52 GMT
Many thanks vic.  |
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Post by saddamy on Feb 7, 2009 17:45:05 GMT
i once told an x boss jews are arabs and arabs are jews and he didn't believe me. though one should remember that jews are the chosen ones.
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Post by flatandy on Feb 7, 2009 19:41:37 GMT
Surely that's only true of sephardic jews, and the ashkenazi aren't quite so obviously from the same stock.
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Post by vania on Feb 7, 2009 19:54:43 GMT
If, according to UK laws, Jews are a race/ethnic group, then that would make the Ashkenazi and the Sephardim (and I suppose Beta Israel) all from the same stock?
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Post by Victor Meldrew on Feb 7, 2009 19:54:45 GMT
You may have a point there Andy, but I suppose it depends how far you want to go back. The Sephardi Jews are the Spanish & Portuguese group, with the Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe.
However, wouldn't they all have originated from the twelve tribes of Israel in biblical times? Wasn't it only after the expulsion of Jews from the Middle East that the diaspora split into these two distinct groups? I haven't studied it too much, as I wasn't that interested in learning about the way these two groups formed. I'm completely Atheist (that means I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, Berty) but my parents were from Ashkenazi Jewish descendency, coming to the UK from Russia and Poland.
Certainly, the Sephardi Jews look far more Middle Eastern than the pasty complexion Ashkenazi lot, but as Jews, they must all have their roots set in the land of Israel having followed Moses to the land of milk and honey, wouldn't they?
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Post by tarrant on Feb 7, 2009 21:10:16 GMT
but as Jews, they must all have their roots set in the land of Israel having followed Moses to the land of milk and honey, wouldn't they? The people who followed Moses weren't all related nor were they all from the same race. They were a community of people, probably the inhabatants of an Egyptian administrive area who collectively chose to leave. |
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Post by flatandy on Feb 7, 2009 21:45:52 GMT
My grandparents were ashkenazi, too. The ashkenazi, more than the sephardim, had other genetic stock mixing with them, I think. Particularly after the Kazar conversion. Although I'm no great expert.
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limeylily
New Member
I can be as daft as anyone ... I just have to try harder.
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Post by limeylily on Feb 8, 2009 10:29:34 GMT
but as Jews, they must all have their roots set in the land of Israel having followed Moses to the land of milk and honey, wouldn't they? The people who followed Moses weren't all related nor were they all from the same race. They were a community of people, probably the inhabatants of an Egyptian administrive area who collectively chose to leave. A bit like the Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians who called themselves "Palestinians" in 1971 then.  |
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Post by bertrus2 on Feb 8, 2009 12:36:37 GMT
'The Origin of Palestinians and their Genetic Relatedness with other Mediterranean Populations' This paper was published in 2001. It's not exactly news.
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Post by bertrus2 on Feb 8, 2009 12:43:51 GMT
If the results mean that immigrants from eastern Europe are descendants of ancient Canaanites, it's very surprising. Arnaiz-Villena A, Elaiwa N, Silvera C, Rostom A, Moscoso J, Gómez-Casado E, Allende L, Varela P, Martínez-Laso J.
Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es
The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.
PMID: 11543891 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11543891 |
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lala
New Member
Arrgh!! Urrgh!! No!!
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Post by lala on Feb 8, 2009 22:43:53 GMT
Shock! Horror! Cullture more important than genes in determining how you see yourself!
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Post by tarrant on Feb 8, 2009 23:38:25 GMT
Yeah. I was thinking the same lala
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