Fresh protest over foreign labour

[sweet soul]

Unemployed construction workers are to stage protests amid claims British people are being denied the chance to apply for work.

Unite's joint general secretary Derek Simpson said: "No European worker should be barred from applying for a British job and absolutely no British worker should be barred from applying for a British job."

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7882767.stm

[VikingHumpingWitch]

From whence came this sudden and erroneous belief that somehow any of us has a right to dictate how businesses run themselves, who they employ, who they subcontract to and so on?

[minge tightly]

Since workers found themselves unable to find gainful employment in their industry, in their home nation, in the midst of a nasty recession I suppose.

It's only going to get worse too

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Well yes, presumably people only give an arse about unemployment when they're on the receiving end of it. But in recessions it is not unknown for people to lose jobs, I don't understand why they think this gives them a right to have a say in a commercial enterprise in which they hold no stakes.

[flatandy]

I think people don't want jobs for longer. They want companies to become uncompetetive in the UK and go out of business. And the middle of a recession is the perfect time for this.

[minge tightly]

They see it as their country. If you're working and employing in that country, then you should employ locals of that country.

Not the most enlightened attitude in this globe-trotting age (Nor the most informed considering many Brits happily work abroad) but, you know, not that many people got to partake in all this working & living abroad malarky and have been struggling to get by these past few years, even though we were supposed to be reaping the benefits of the greatest econimic boom eva, so their understanding of and toward the rights of business to employ who they like is probably in short supply.

Macro economic explanations tend not to carry too much weight when you can't get a job and are getting pissed off.

[tarrant]

The problems have arisen because contracts have gone to foreign companies who then bring in huge numbers of foreign workers.

Free movement of labour is essential for a strong economy and for our democracy. But these companies are using the foreign labour to play them off against the local labour.

I have to say I understand your point VHW. Many workers are lazy, incompetant and dishonest. Companies should be allowed to source their labour to suit themselves.

But equally, these protests have a constructive element in that they will redress the balance.

Big international companies are sensitive about their reputations and image. They will ensure they employ a noticable number of local workers simply for that.

[flatandy]

The people I'd be least likely to give a job to are people who are complaining like this, that they should be employed because of their nationality, and not because they can properly compete with their foreign counterparts. The kind who behave as if they are owed a job because of their passport.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

It's just a basic commercial transaction though. If you put out a project to tender you take the most economically advantagous tender, if it happens that it's a foreign company then maybe British companies need to be more competitive. They won't get more competitive by having to accept higher prices just so they can employ some Brits.

[sweet soul]

Middle aged men fighting for a job in their homeland. Good luck to them!

[yord]

perhaps if all these middle aged men fighting for a job started fighting the government for reduced taxation instead theyd find that companies operating in the UK wouldnt need to employ forgeign labour

[minge tightly]

"It's just a basic commercial transaction though. If you put out a project to tender you take the most economically advantagous tender"

In the environment we find ourselves in, it's not surprising that people have little faith in what is 'economically advantageous' really

[omnipleasant]

Is it right that a lot of these protests were sparked because of workers protesting in favour of the foreign workers (conditions etc) and that this was completely ignored by the media desperate for a "British jobs for British workers!!" headline?

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Well economically advantageous is just the jargon for "cheapest doesn't necessarily mean best value in the long-term".

I don't really understand the conditions protest either. If a contractor brings his own people onsite and happens to offer better terms than the workers of the company who site it is, isn't that just a fact of life that some companies pay more than others? I could definitely be earning more dosh doing the same job for a different company, but you know, it's up to me to find a better paying employer, not demand that all better paying employers cut staff wages.

[tarrant]

As far as the companies go, I have to agree with you VHW.

However, few of these companies maintain more than a few permanent workers.

Those that do the work are invariably individuals who subcontract themselves to the companies.

The workers that are brought here by these overseas companies, likewise, have been hired for the job.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Feb 11, 2009 12:07:26 GMT @tarrant said:

However, few of these companies maintain more than a few permanent workers.

Those that do the work are invariably individuals who subcontract themselves to the companies.

The workers that are brought here by these overseas companies, likewise, have been hired for the job.

Do we know this?

Even if it is true, I still find myself thinking "what's the beef"? Well obviously "I haven't got a job and I want one" is a beef but it's not a legitimate reason to object to the hiring of someone else. If the someone else is more qualified or cheaper then of course they're going to get hired ahead of you.

[yord]

the beef is that UK workers need x amount just to survive. They are over taxed because as the government would say they demand the services that others countries and the labour employed in other countries , dont demand. IE the NHS etc etc . Of couse our workers can not compete with foriegn workers.This is not the fault of companies but of government

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Well yes, UK workers demand a certain standard of living and that's higher than you generally find in India or China. I can't say I think that's bad.

[yord]

Its only bad in that you can no longer compete with China or India and its those very workers that cant compete that are buying Indian and Chinese imports.

[tarrant]

Feb 11, 2009 12:15:07 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

Do we know this?

Even if it is true, I still find myself thinking "what's the beef"?

I've been trying to find a reference for the numbers of self employed people in the building industry but so far, without success.

However, my point was that the workers that are brought here are not necessarily tried and trusted, long term employees, they are hired for that job. When that job is done, they will be laid off like any other building worker.

But as I said already, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Foreign companies like to hire local workers simply because they know their culture and can communicate with them.

British workers, rightly or wrongly, don't have a very good reputation overseas.

The workers are arguing that hireing overseas workers when there are local trademen available is silly.

That many of these jobs are paid for with UK government money.

One of the problem I frequently deal with in my job is sorting out some of the friction that occurs between overseas people and locals.

Overseas managers, especially eastern Europeans, often are very abrupt with British workers and too ready to take diciplinary action. They are, by contrast, often over tolerant of their own nationals and those from their neighbouring countries.

I wouldn't advise anyone to ever work under a German manager. Never met one who has an ounce of manners toward British workers. All seem to be seeking some sort of revenge.

British managers seem to assume that everyine they meet is useless until they prove themselves. But generally, they don't look for confrontation.

Local workers are often quite agressive to foreign workers.

I've generally found Polish, Chech, Hungarian, Roumanian, yugoslavian workers and such to be very reasonable, friendly and easy going. Not very quick or particularly skilled.

Albanians are also good workers and are very self confident and secure.

Lithuainians, Latvians, Russians can be difficult and moody, but generally very skilled though not very quick.

British workers can be skilled and quick but too many seem too easily led by bad apples.

These are my personal impressions.