VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Feb 12, 2009 12:31:12 GMT
All based upon the hooks that were created by this TV program. You don't think they they used those "hooks" because that's how those figures were perceived anyway? Satire takes character traits to the ridiculous, it relies on people recognising those traits otherwise it would just be wrong and weird. |
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 12:48:19 GMT
No.
This claim has been made before, including, strangely enough by producers themselves.
But the influence of these types of programs has been well documented.
Satirical sketch shows appear on TV all over the world.
The point I was making is that all of us tend to express the attituded that conform to our positions within our peer group.
I also cited the example of Reliant cars. Not only were the attitudes espoused by Jasper Carrot not held prior to his programs, Reliant cars actually had full order books and couldn't keep up with demand!
As i said, we all like to think of ourselves as being free thinkers. We all like to believe that we, personally, are not influenced by propaganda while everyone else is.
The reality is we are social animals. We each desire to maintain our position within our peer group more than we value life itself.
To do that, we all form our opinions and attitudes based upon the expectations of our peers.
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Feb 12, 2009 12:53:35 GMT
Really? So if I were attempt to satirise one of your posts, do you think it would work if, say, I wrote it in the curious half-babytalk Sweet Soul employs? And ever afterwards people would say "Oh yeah Tarrent, him who writes in that weird baby style?" Because I think people wouldn't have a clue who I was satirising. The point of the exercise is that they recognise who you're having a pop at. If you just randomly invent traits and ascribe them to people it's not good satire. |
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mids
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Post by mids on Feb 12, 2009 12:53:50 GMT
Jasper Carrot, destroyer of car plants.
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 13:04:26 GMT
Really? So if I were attempt to satirise one of your posts, do you think it would work if, say, I wrote it in the curious half-babytalk Sweet Soul employs? And ever afterwards people would say "Oh yeah Tarrent, him who writes in that weird baby style?" Because I think people wouldn't have a clue who I was satirising. The point of the exercise is that they recognise who you're having a pop at. If you just randomly invent traits and ascribe them to people it's not good satire. I think you're missing the point. Public attitudes are swayed by perception. Each of us, you included, tends to conform to those attitudes that are acceptable to our peer group. I realise how difficult it is for you to accept that none of us has as much control over ourselves as we hoped, but that is reality. The importance of free access to all information, along with democracy is emphasised here. Censorship might be necessary in limited circumstances but for our society to develop and progress, there must be freedom of thought. The solution for those that don't like the thought being expressed public ally is to express their own more forcefully. We only need to look at societies with a long history of controlling thought and compare these to European societies where we have a long tradition of freedom. As to your point about satirising me. Please feel free to try. If you are any good at it, the result might be interesting. |
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 13:06:12 GMT
Jasper Carrot, destroyer of car plants. Quite. Reliant has gone from full order books into receovership. |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Feb 12, 2009 13:08:41 GMT
You're missing my point. Satire will not be effective unless the audience can identify the character being satirised. Those "hooks" didn't spring out of nowhere. Neil Kinnock was characterised as a dull windbag because he was, not because the writers of Spitting Image couldn't think of any other way to do him. Thatcher was protrayed as dominating because she was. The Queen Mother was portrayed as a gambling addict because it was well known she liked a flutter on the horses. And so on.
I'm perfectly happy to accept that the TV show influenced people's opinions, for instance I would never know Roy Hattersley had a habit of spitting when he spoke unless I'd seen the torrents of water coming out of his puppet's mouth, but that's not where it started.
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Post by omnipleasant on Feb 12, 2009 13:11:11 GMT
"I realise how difficult it is for you to accept that none of us has as much control over ourselves as we hoped, but that is reality."
Yep. And we our perceptions on things like national politics are shaped by what we learn about the wider world - from the media.
A beautiful example of that is on immigration. Very few people think that immigration is a problem where they live. Huge amounts of people think it's a problem elsewhere, and nationally generally. Simply because they read the papers and watch the telly, and they tell them it is.
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Woolf
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Look for the rainbow, don't just stare at the rain.
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Post by Woolf on Feb 12, 2009 13:10:47 GMT
Be fair Jasper Carrot mainly took the piss out of the Reliant Robin.
For the non British, a 3 wheeled, turbo hair dryer.
Yes I have been in one, my uncle used to own one.
I thought they were crap before I got in, nothing ever since has changed my mind.
I defy any one on this board to come up with one good thing about them.
Being taxed as a motor bike does not count, its the same for all trikes.
Or comedy value.
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Post by omnipleasant on Feb 12, 2009 13:15:00 GMT
"The importance of free access to all information"
i.e. the popular media.
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mids
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Post by mids on Feb 12, 2009 13:17:59 GMT
And to think, if it hadn't been for Ben Elton, Thatch would still be PM... <sigh>
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 13:17:09 GMT
Neil Kinnock was characterised as a dull windbag because he was, not because the writers of Spitting Image couldn't think of any other way to do him. Thatcher was protrayed as dominating because she was. The Queen Mother was portrayed as a gambling addict because it was well known she liked a flutter on the horses. And so on. . How do you know any of this. The Queen Mother, like most people in her social group, likes to attent horce racing and has a flutter. That does not make her or anyone else a gamblig addict. Your perceptions of Kinnock and Thatcher are equally flawed. |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Feb 12, 2009 13:19:36 GMT
Neil Kinnock was characterised as a dull windbag because he was, not because the writers of Spitting Image couldn't think of any other way to do him. Thatcher was protrayed as dominating because she was. The Queen Mother was portrayed as a gambling addict because it was well known she liked a flutter on the horses. And so on. . How do you know any of this. The Queen Mother, like most people in her social group, likes to attent horce racing and has a flutter. That does not make her or anyone else a gamblig addict. Your perceptions of Kinnock and Thatcher are equally flawed. I know she wasn't (she's dead by the way) a gambling addict. That's why I said earlier that satire takes a trait and exaggerates it. Have you ever met satire? I concede to your points that Neil Kinnock was a fascinating man well known for his ability to put a point across concisely and without deviation and Thatcher was a big fan of consensus politics. Because it's easier that way. |
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 13:22:18 GMT
That's why I said earlier that satire takes a trait and exaggerates it. Have you ever met satire? Which is exactly the point I made. Duh!! |
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VikingHumpingWitch
New Member
"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Feb 12, 2009 13:29:03 GMT
Oh, my mistake. When you wrote "All based upon the hooks that were created by this TV program" I thought you meant "All based upon the hooks that were created by this TV program" rather than "Because these were popular beliefs at the time taken to extreme heights by a TV programme".
In that case we agree - Spitting Image didn't pluck these ideas out of nowhere. Thank god, because trying to discuss anything with you leaves me thinking I could more usefully and entertainingly spend the time trying to remove my nipples with pliars.
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 13:34:27 GMT
Another one who responds without bothering to read first.
You are a politician's dream young lady.
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VikingHumpingWitch
New Member
"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Feb 12, 2009 13:43:00 GMT
I did bother to read, it's not my fault you write something and think it means the exact opposite.
I doubt I'll be bothering much in the future though.
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ricklinc
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Nostalgia
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Post by ricklinc on Feb 12, 2009 13:55:48 GMT
When you've finished with the pliers can you lend them to Omnipresent? He'll be needing something like that by and by.
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Post by tarrant on Feb 12, 2009 13:56:45 GMT
I've made myself quite clear.
Whether you like it or not, your opinions and behaviour are largely governed by your desire to belong to your peer group.
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Post by omnipleasant on Feb 12, 2009 13:57:58 GMT
Rick, your obsessive stalking is starting to make you come across as a bit of a freak. If you want to sleep with me or something, just ask.
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