Daca Dreams dead

[voice]

An Obama-era scheme to protect young undocumented immigrants is to be scrapped, US Attorney General Jeff Sessions has announced.
The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (Daca) programme was introduced five years ago.


www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41165513

[reverend]

Getting rid of the loopholes?

[voice]

well if you consider thousands of kids who have grown up in the US many of who now don't speak the language of their native country and have no ties to their native country and who may have younger siblings with citizenship loopholes, then I suppose so.

[clarity]

Sept 5, 2017 15:37:35 GMT reverend said:

Getting rid of the loopholes?

No, getting rid of humanitarianism.

[mids]

Why are they undocumented? What's happened to their documents? Their American passports and suchlike.

[flatandy]

Absolutely f**k**g insane. Completely insane.

And possibly disastrous for the Republicans in general and Trump in particular.

[flatandy]

They are undocumented because they were brought to the US as kids by illegal immigrant parents. As a 3 year old, you have no choice. So you grow up in the US, you are educated in the US, you speak English, you have no connection to your country of birth, don't speak the language or have any cultural touchstones. You are, to all intents and purposes, American.

And the Trump administration is about to deport you to a country you've never known, because you would never have been able to gain citizenship as your parents arrived illegally.

Even worse, the people who've signed up for DACA are the ones who are most honest, most straight. These are the ones who have chosen to put themselves in the system. The moral that Trump is sending is that it's better to stay concealed, underground, only working in the black and grey markets, as a criminal.

It's morally vile, and desperately stupid.

[mids]

I imagine they'll be glad to leave, what with America being a Nazi regime now.

[voice]

Sept 5, 2017 18:25:48 GMT flatandy said:

They are undocumented because they were brought to the US as kids by illegal immigrant parents. As a 3 year old, you have no choice. So you grow up in the US, you are educated in the US, you speak English, you have no connection to your country of birth, don't speak the language or have any cultural touchstones. You are, to all intents and purposes, American.

And the Trump administration is about to deport you to a country you've never known, because you would never have been able to gain citizenship as your parents arrived illegally.

Even worse, the people who've signed up for DACA are the ones who are most honest, most straight. These are the ones who have chosen to put themselves in the system. The moral that Trump is sending is that it's better to stay concealed, underground, only working in the black and grey markets, as a criminal.

It's morally vile, and desperately stupid.

yeah, blokes like this


www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-41167896/daca-dreamers-harvey-hero-now-faces-deportation


and as they'd did the right thing and registered they'll be the first to be rounded up no doubt.

[jimboky]

DACA was always illegal, maybe this time congress will act, how about first building the wall to prevent future DACA's,
these people came over illegally, and cos they didn't get caught they are somehow now above the law? they have their parents to blame

[flatandy]

"First build a wall"? Are you suggesting that we should be sending these kids to places they've never known, taking them away from jobs and education, and only stop deporting people once a wall is built?

Also, can you really describe someone who arrived as a 3 year old as "coming over here illegally"? Their parents arrived illegally, but are you responsible for your actions when you're three, and brought by your parents?

[flatandy]

And it should go without saying that even if DACA is "illegal" (which is a big question) it's still morally right. I feel that many on the US right are very selective in their focus on what actions by the executive are illegal, and often cover up other motivations by cloaking it in the language of dubious constitutional legality. In this instance it's "seperation of powers" but at other times it's "states' rights". But, in reality, this is not "separation of powers" but "we should be allowed to kick out dusky hued people, even if they don't belong anywhere else", and "states rights" really means "we shouldn't have been stopped from keeping slaves, and we should certainly not have any do-gooder northerners concerned about how we treat their descendants".

[voice]

rather on the money there Andy

[Repat Van]

Children punished for the actions of their parents.

[jimboky]

DACA was illegal, we know this cos Obama said so before he did the e/order, Maybe Trump will do it right this time, amnesty for the dreamers if they first build the wall and if they are otherwise legal, If Trump was trying to remove the Dreamers he wouldn't give them 6mo

[clarity]

Sept 5, 2017 18:25:48 GMT flatandy said:

They are undocumented because they were brought to the US as kids by illegal immigrant parents. As a 3 year old, you have no choice. So you grow up in the US, you are educated in the US, you speak English, you have no connection to your country of birth, don't speak the language or have any cultural touchstones. You are, to all intents and purposes, American.

And the Trump administration is about to deport you to a country you've never known, because you would never have been able to gain citizenship as your parents arrived illegally.

Even worse, the people who've signed up for DACA are the ones who are most honest, most straight. These are the ones who have chosen to put themselves in the system. The moral that Trump is sending is that it's better to stay concealed, underground, only working in the black and grey markets, as a criminal.

It's morally vile, and desperately stupid.

A member of the Senate here in Canada is pushing for Canada to take in a lot of the dreamers. She said they've been vetted in the US, most of them will have signed up for DACA thus proving 'they're honest and straight forward', will have college and/or university education, speak English and Spanish and they are young and enthusiastic. These are the kind of people we want in Canada. What's to lose. America's lost will be our gain.

Just an aside, Canadian universities have seen an unprecedented surge in international students wanting to come to Canada. Many of them will go on to be permanent residents and/or citizens. The applications are highest from the US.

[clarity]

Sept 7, 2017 2:34:37 GMT jimboky said:

DACA was illegal, we know this cos Obama said so before he did the e/order, Maybe Trump will do it right this time, amnesty for the dreamers if they first build the wall and if they are otherwise legal, If Trump was trying to remove the Dreamers he wouldn't give them 6mo

Trump is incapable of doing anything right.

[jimboky]

can they just sneak into Canada?

[flatandy]

Sept 7, 2017 2:34:37 GMT jimboky said:

DACA was illegal, we know this cos Obama said so before he did the e/order, Maybe Trump will do it right this time, amnesty for the dreamers if they first build the wall and if they are otherwise legal, If Trump was trying to remove the Dreamers he wouldn't give them 6mo

Why would you need to build the wall first? How is having a wall in place going to do anything about the people who currently have work permits in the US, and were resident in 2012?

[clarity]

Sept 7, 2017 13:13:43 GMT jimboky said:

can they just sneak into Canada?

Well they can, but it doesn't seem likely that those who are documented will do so as they seem an honest bunch. Anyway, anybody who sneaks into Canada is arrested for entering the country illegally. As hundreds of economic migrant Haitians have recently found out for themselves. They are arrested and although they have a right to claim asylum over half of them had their claims dismissed and have been deported since neither the US or Haiti are considered unsafe countries by the UNCHR.

If this Canadian Senator makes a good case then it's more than likely that the dreamers would be included in the 350,000 legal immigrants who come here every year.

It's very difficult to live illegally here. Firstly you have to have a social insurance number and you can't get that without producing your Canadian birth certificate or you legal immigrant papers. There are huge fines for employers who employ illegals.

Secondly, you can't access the health system without a photo identity card and to get that again you have to produce either a Canadian birth certificate or legal immigrant papers. Everything is checked and double checked and you have to wait 3 months before you can access the system. One of my sons lost his health card and his birth certificate and tried to obtain new ones, they questioned him and then asked him who was the doctor who delivered him and at which hospital was he born. He didn't know the doctor's name and had to phone me. He gave them that information and they checked their records and found it to be correct so issued him with new documents.

Thirdly you can't access the education system without producing a Canadian birth certificate or legal immigrant papers. The school secretaries have to check and photocopy them and the school board will do further checks to ensure they're not forged papers. You get given a number when you immigrate here. I lost my legal immigrant papers when I moved house many years ago and needed them to access my Canadian pension and it was a big rigmarole to get a copy as they had to go back through the archives and it took them a few weeks and I had to pay a fee. Despite me living and working here for years and paying into the government pension fund they wouldn't accept that I was legal until I produced those immigrant documents.

I was surprised at how sloppy the UK system is because when I was there for a years teaching exchange nobody asked me to produce anything when I accessed the health system. Also my friend who has just returned from a years teaching exchange found it the same. She just walked into a local clinic and gave her local address and, no questions asked, was given treatment for the one time she needed it. You simply could not do that here. If you don't produce your health card then you pay.

Sorry about the digression but it was to explain why it's difficult to live here as an illegal.