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NHS
Apr 15, 2023 8:04:18 GMT
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Post by perrykneeham on Apr 15, 2023 8:04:18 GMT
It's Important to remember that "junior" doctors are all doctors below the level of consultant, so I understand.
So, all these starving twenty-somethings on the picket lines are hardly representatives of the category. I think the doctors and the nurses have gaslighted the taxpayer and, uimately, themselves.
There was a retired doctor on the radio the other day, whose kids were almost all doctors too. To hear him speak, you would imagine that the nation's very life depended on the fruits of his loins, whom he described as the "best of the best" because they all had 4 A*s at A-level. Well, a couple of points about that:
Lots of clever kids get 4 x A* at A-level these days. Lots of clever kids don't want to be doctors. Lots of clever kids who do want to become doctors are probably not the best people to become doctors. I bet the old boy didn't get those grades because the standards are artificially high and certainly you didn't need straight As in the 70s and 80s.
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Apr 15, 2023 8:25:59 GMT
It's the same hysteria which seems to be afflicting much of society.
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flatandy
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NHS
Apr 15, 2023 10:34:45 GMT
Post by flatandy on Apr 15, 2023 10:34:45 GMT
There are multiple things at work here.
It appears that Docs in their first couple of years do not get paid much
It looks like Docs generally are absolutely desperate to protect their own earnings and their cartel like situation and don’t want an actual good supply of doctors
And even Docs probably have some difficulty in the UK at the moment because their incomes and rising at the astonishing rate that inflation has been under Team Disaster’s economic stewardship.
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NHS
Apr 15, 2023 13:17:43 GMT
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Post by perrykneeham on Apr 15, 2023 13:17:43 GMT
The rest of us can't put people's lives at risk and hold the taxpayer to ransom. I see they're going to coordinate future actions with the nurses.
The cost of living crisis really isn't that big a deal in UK and the only people bleating about the grocerycaust are public sector wankers.
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voice
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NHS
Apr 15, 2023 14:36:48 GMT
Post by voice on Apr 15, 2023 14:36:48 GMT
Lots of consultant Dr's are not junior Dr's, GP's are not consultants and they make up the bulk of Dr's. Jnr Dr's are Dr's who have not fully qualified, ie finished their internship. You can easily tell if its a consultant cos they are called 'Mr' rather than 'Dr'.
The closed shop thing where they keep places limited is no new thing, it goes back decades, neither is it a just a UK thing. We have a Dr shortage here, have for years, but when an Ontario university proposed doubling its intake and encouraged other Unies to do the same as a way to tackle the shortage, back in the late 00's, the Canadian equivalent of the BMA responded by saying if they did this they would not accredit the courses and would refuse to let any graduates register with the collage.
As for Jur Dr's pay, its rather crap, they work very long hours and are dumped on by the consultants who use them and abuse them. Sure the long term benefit is there (if they get through) but in the moment, being a FY1, FY2 or StR is not well rewarded.
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 13:42:31 GMT
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Post by Repat Van on Apr 16, 2023 13:42:31 GMT
It's Important to remember that "junior" doctors are all doctors below the level of consultant, so I understand. So, all these starving twenty-somethings on the picket lines are hardly representatives of the category. I think the doctors and the nurses have gaslighted the taxpayer and, uimately, themselves. There was a retired doctor on the radio the other day, whose kids were almost all doctors too. To hear him speak, you would imagine that the nation's very life depended on the fruits of his loins, whom he described as the "best of the best" because they all had 4 A*s at A-level. Well, a couple of points about that: Lots of clever kids get 4 x A* at A-level these days. Lots of clever kids don't want to be doctors. Lots of clever kids who do want to become doctors are probably not the best people to become doctors. I bet the old boy didn't get those grades because the standards are artificially high and certainly you didn't need straight As in the 70s and 80s. The UK’s loss is Australia’s gain….
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 13:46:13 GMT
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Post by Repat Van on Apr 16, 2023 13:46:13 GMT
The cost of living crisis really isn't that big a deal in UK and the only people bleating about the grocerycaust are public sector wankers. LOL! “It doesn’t affect me so it’s not an issue.”
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 13:47:38 GMT
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Post by Repat Van on Apr 16, 2023 13:47:38 GMT
Lots of consultant Dr's are not junior Dr's, GP's are not consultants and they make up the bulk of Dr's. Jnr Dr's are Dr's who have not fully qualified, ie finished their internship. You can easily tell if its a consultant cos they are called 'Mr' rather than 'Dr'. The closed shop thing where they keep places limited is no new thing, it goes back decades, neither is it a just a UK thing. We have a Dr shortage here, have for years, but when an Ontario university proposed doubling its intake and encouraged other Unies to do the same as a way to tackle the shortage, back in the late 00's, the Canadian equivalent of the BMA responded by saying if they did this they would not accredit the courses and would refuse to let any graduates register with the collage. As for Jur Dr's pay, its rather crap, they work very long hours and are dumped on by the consultants who use them and abuse them. Sure the long term benefit is there (if they get through) but in the moment, being a FY1, FY2 or StR is not well rewarded. It’s so strange the desire to keep places limited you would think we want as many able people as possible heading to medial schools / colleges / medical courses in university.
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 14:47:32 GMT
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Post by perrykneeham on Apr 16, 2023 14:47:32 GMT
Closed shop. Restrictive practices. Demarcation.
Scum.
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voice
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 16:03:55 GMT
Post by voice on Apr 16, 2023 16:03:55 GMT
Lots of consultant Dr's are not junior Dr's, GP's are not consultants and they make up the bulk of Dr's. Jnr Dr's are Dr's who have not fully qualified, ie finished their internship. You can easily tell if its a consultant cos they are called 'Mr' rather than 'Dr'. The closed shop thing where they keep places limited is no new thing, it goes back decades, neither is it a just a UK thing. We have a Dr shortage here, have for years, but when an Ontario university proposed doubling its intake and encouraged other Unies to do the same as a way to tackle the shortage, back in the late 00's, the Canadian equivalent of the BMA responded by saying if they did this they would not accredit the courses and would refuse to let any graduates register with the collage. As for Jur Dr's pay, its rather crap, they work very long hours and are dumped on by the consultants who use them and abuse them. Sure the long term benefit is there (if they get through) but in the moment, being a FY1, FY2 or StR is not well rewarded. It’s so strange the desire to keep places limited you would think we want as many able people as possible heading to medial schools / colleges / medical courses in university. supply and demand, keep the supply down and it keeps wages high. The biggest rason Dr's resisted and continue to resist the introduction and widening of scope of Nurse Practitioners is NP's cost quite a bit less.
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ootlg
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 16:08:19 GMT
Post by ootlg on Apr 16, 2023 16:08:19 GMT
Are you a Dr, voice?
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voice
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 16:10:41 GMT
Post by voice on Apr 16, 2023 16:10:41 GMT
you know I'm not, what a silly question
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ootlg
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Apr 16, 2023 16:11:47 GMT
Post by ootlg on Apr 16, 2023 16:11:47 GMT
I don't. I'm surprised you take the question as an insult.
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voice
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Apr 16, 2023 16:22:28 GMT
Post by voice on Apr 16, 2023 16:22:28 GMT
sorry thought my mentioning countless times I was nurse and the idiot always referring to me as 'the nurse' as if such a thing were an insult would have rather cemented the idea I am a nurse, no insult taken btw, just seamed an odd question given all that.
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ootlg
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 16:24:41 GMT
Post by ootlg on Apr 16, 2023 16:24:41 GMT
No, I meant it, seriously. I don't take much notice of posters' qualifications. You said you had uni degrees 'n stuff so I thought you may have been (as the subject has arisen).
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voice
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 16:30:03 GMT
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Post by voice on Apr 16, 2023 16:30:03 GMT
fairymuff, I thought about medicine by at 35 when I started retraining I couldn't face such taking so long when I had a couple of kids.
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 16:56:38 GMT
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Post by perrykneeham on Apr 16, 2023 16:56:38 GMT
Was their a route in to studying medicine at that age?
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voice
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Apr 16, 2023 17:03:43 GMT
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Post by voice on Apr 16, 2023 17:03:43 GMT
yeah, but not an easy one, the uni bit was relatively straight forward I had a couple of degrees by that point so met all entry requierments, but its the post uni bit that would have been a massive challenge with a young family, and once finished I'd have been in my mid 40's with massive debts, so nursing was the better option as the gov paid us a bursary and paid for child care so with a bit of photography work on the side I kept paying the mortgage and came out debit free.
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voice
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 17:08:53 GMT
Post by voice on Apr 16, 2023 17:08:53 GMT
Though if I to be honest my dyslexia would have been a majour issue when it came to drug names, I have to be very very careful and check everything now, I fear, had I gone that root, I'd have made mistakes and you can't have a Dr who does that, its why once I thought fully about it I didn't go onto be a nurse practitioner when the opportunity arose.
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NHS
Apr 16, 2023 20:04:48 GMT
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Post by Repat Van on Apr 16, 2023 20:04:48 GMT
It’s so strange the desire to keep places limited you would think we want as many able people as possible heading to medial schools / colleges / medical courses in university. supply and demand, keep the supply down and it keeps wages high. The biggest rason Dr's resisted and continue to resist the introduction and widening of scope of Nurse Practitioners is NP's cost quite a bit less. Seems incredibly selfish and also is a factor in the problems they are facing with staff shortages. I think this is the kind of thing the government should be more interfering with.
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