The migrants who just don't belong, by the Archbis

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Well his call for "recognition" of our Christian heritage (WTF does that mean - we all recognise Britain used to be Christian and is now largely secular) and the return to values represented by Churches struck me as eversoslightly a bit calling for a return to more religion.

But if he is merely making the point that society has changed since the 1950s then it's spectacularly vacuous. Um, yes it has. To suggest that if we hadn't had any non-Christian immies in that time then society would have stood still is stupidity of an astonishing level.

[sweet soul]

Hes ok. I like this guy.

[sweet soul]

Least hes not calling for ' death to infidels '

[radge]

When in Rome...that is the way the world should understand and work, its a very neutral and beneficial method, that shouldnt offend anyone unless they are a pleb. You accept whats around you if you decide to immigrate. and integration only make life easier not harder.

[vania]

Sorry Archibish but I switched off at 'Christian heritage'.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 14, 2009 13:26:59 GMT ricklinc said:

My dad was an evil immie. Sod all was printed in wop so he learnt to read and write English. When I was wandering around Germany in the middle of the night I was grateful for the number of Germans who spoke English and Italian and French but even though I was only there for a while I did make an effort to mispronounce my way through some of the local language. It's far too easy for some devout muslim to come to the UK and never even need to learn English. That can't be right. I'd have a very deep mistrust of someone who went to another country and couldn't even be bothered to learn the language. They'd ghetto up and assume that local laws were just for the local pale island dudes.

It's not about making things awkward for newcomers but some things shouldn't be too easy.

Yeah agree with all of that, but with the best will in the world it's not easy to become expert in a new language overnight. I'm fluent in Swedish but I have trouble with forms and unfamiliar words. Nowt wrong with offering people help if it doesn't cost much and makes a massive difference to them, and will actually benefit your society by ensuring people know what they're meant to be doing, where and when.

[flatandy]

Does it help society, though? If they are massively over-paying their taxes because we don't print tax forms in, say, Swedish, isn't that a good thing, as the state ends up much much richer, and they clearly don't mind as they stay in the country any way.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 14, 2009 13:37:54 GMT flatandy said:

Does it help society, though? If they are massively over-paying their taxes because we don't print tax forms in, say, Swedish, isn't that a good thing, as the state ends up much much richer, and they clearly don't mind as they stay in the country any way.

Clearly tax forms should not be translated, as Sweden has realised. The forms telling me how to set up the business in the first place and how to register to pay all this shiney lovely tax, however, were available in English. Which was good because a) I'd been in the country three days at that point, and b) if I didn't know how to do it properly I might have just not bothered registering for tax and never paid it.

[Deleted]

"To be honest, I'm most offended by his suggestion that we need more religion."

Which he actually doesn't do. All he talks about is Christian Values and the society raised on those values. What you and Lard are going on about I don't know, unless you feel Christian Values are crap. He only talks about uncontrolled immigration too, not immigration per se.

But if this thread is all about having a pop at a black man who dresses up in funny clothes, wears silly hats and utters mumbo jumbo to an adoring flock, go for it.

[flatandy]

See, that's just sensible. Make sure you're registered to pay - do that in your language. But don't tell you any of the loopholes. Make sure paying too much tax is a cost for not learning the language properly.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 14, 2009 13:28:54 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

Well his call for "recognition" of our Christian heritage (WTF does that mean - we all recognise Britain used to be Christian and is now largely secular) and the return to values represented by Churches struck me as eversoslightly a bit calling for a return to more religion.

Reposted as you missed it before.

If you want to make this all about him being black go ahead, I don't think it has any bearing on his comments being shash.

[flatandy]

He may talk about "uncontrolled" immigration, yet he's automatically assuming that everything post-1950 falls into that.

He also, somehow, thinks all the Jews have integrated.

He also, somehow, thinks that British identity has collapsed

He also, somehow, thinks there was a 1950s British identity worth preserving

He also thinks the 1950s British identity worth preserving was defined by churches and churchy values.

All wrong.

[vania]

I actually agree with Ricky (Good God) on the 'million languages' thing. I don't think the UK government should be doing that solely because it means people are not forced into one of the basic methods of integration: learning a countries language.

It's ok for independent minded immigrants such as Vike who would never depend on others, but I am still shocked at the fact that some of my friends have mothers (always mothers) who have lived in this country for 20+ years yet have none, or less than basic English language skills.

Having council documents available in multiple languages cannot assist in this. And I speak as a former emmie who moved to France with pretty basic French.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

One of the things I found particularly hilarious is that the brochure for Swedish For Immigrants, which teaches very very basic Swedish (about up to 9 year old level), is only available in Swedish. I mean ok, if it costs too much to print it in every world language fine, but you might as well save the money from printing it in Swedish.

If the UK offered free English lessons to all immigrants then it would be easier for immies to learn English, I think.

Maybe just print stuff about how to stay within the law and the stuff they want you to do in whatever languages are needed, all the stuff on how to claim any benefits or pay the correct amount of tax leave in English.

[Beachcomber]

Whatever happened to the Esperanto Society ? A common second language for the whole world.

It seemed a good idea 30 years ago - perhaps it's time to resurrect it

[Deleted]

It struck you as 'ever so slightly a bit calling for a return to more religion'? Oh, don't mince your words, will you. Ever so slightly a bit... ha ha ha

Actually I do believe this is the LATENT RACISM coming out in you. Nothing to do with religion. Yep.

[puffin]

Jan 14, 2009 13:54:24 GMT flatandy said:

He may talk about "uncontrolled" immigration, yet he's automatically assuming that everything post-1950 falls into that.

He also, somehow, thinks all the Jews have integrated.

He also, somehow, thinks that British identity has collapsed

He also, somehow, thinks there was a 1950s British identity worth preserving

He also thinks the 1950s British identity worth preserving was defined by churches and churchy values.

All wrong.

100% correct.

[minge tightly]

I don't get it. This country has always been multi-cultural, even if it hasn't been multi-ethnic. Any connection between upper class culture and working class culture for example has always been ropey, same with those from different areas of the country so why start banging on about it now? Perhaps we're not deferential enough.

And talk of Christian values and a society raised on those values is ropey too. Enough men, women and children died at the hands of Christian values over the centuries in this country. The Church can feck off.

[dwad]

I generally like John Sentamu and I think his stuff on Zimbabwe is first rate. However, I do sometimes wonder if these bishops should comment on this kind of thing. They really don't help themselves.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 14, 2009 14:02:06 GMT @oneofthelessergods said:

Actually I do believe this is the LATENT RACISM coming out in you. Nothing to do with religion. Yep.

You cunning old dog. Well quite, if some mumbling priest is going to start telling me what to do he'd at least better be white, I'm not having someone who should be cleaning my shoes and calling me massah giving it lip.