Toasty!

[lala]

Dec 3, 2014 22:11:27 GMT Scooby Do said:

Everything has an effect, some more than others, even little effects can have a knock on effect which can be out of all proportion to the initial minor effect.

Everything? Including pumping CO2 into the atmosphere?

[Scooby Do]

Dec 4, 2014 2:25:37 GMT lala said:

Dec 3, 2014 22:11:27 GMT Scooby Do said:

Everything has an effect, some more than others, even little effects can have a knock on effect which can be out of all proportion to the initial minor effect.

Everything? Including pumping CO2 into the atmosphere?

Even throwing a grain of sand in the Atlantic.

[Scooby Do]

As for CO2, maybe we should all turn off our gas fired central heating, stop cooking on gas fired cookers and eat all our food raw.

When boilers are burning "Clean" the the fumes given off are mostly CO2.

[lala]

It's raining here today so obviously there is no global warming whatsoever.

[rick49]

"Peru to take legal action over Greenpeace stunt at ancient Nazca lines"

"Peru will seek criminal charges against Greenpeace activists who it says damaged the world-renowned Nazca lines by leaving footprints in the adjacent desert during a publicity stunt."

“It’s a true slap in the face at everything Peruvians consider sacred,” said Luis Jaime Castillo, the deputy culture minister, after the action by the environmental group on Monday, at the famed drawings etched into Peru’s coastal desert, a UN world heritage site.

"The activists entered a “strictly prohibited” area beside the figure of a hummingbird, the culture ministry said."

"Castillo said no one, not even presidents and cabinet ministers, was allowed where the activists had gone without authorisation and anyone who received permission must wear special shoes."

"The Nazca lines are huge figures depicting living creatures, stylised plants and imaginary figures scratched on the surface of the ground between 1,500 and 2,000 years ago."

“They are absolutely fragile. They are black rocks on a white background. You walk there and the footprint is going to last hundreds or thousands of years,” Castillo said. “And the line that they have destroyed is the most visible and most recognised of all.”

tinyurl.com/pwzhxtd

Here they are stumbling around in the dark.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbfX8IYHBNc

[Eric]

How long have these line lasted? And a few footprints nearby have destroyed their effect?

Hmmm.
I can see the government is going to have to stack the jury if this ever actually goes to court.
But still, in the meantime FREE TOURIST PUBLICITY!

[rick49]

"Lima Climate Talks Set for Record Carbon Footprint"

"Hardly green, Lima U.N. climate talks on track for record carbon footprint."

LIMA, Peru (AP) — "The current U.N. climate talks will be the first to neutralize all the greenhouse gas pollution they generate, offset by host country Peru's protection of forest at three different reserves, organizers say."

"Nor is there a guarantee that the 580 square miles (1,500 square kilometers) of forest offsetting the talks' carbon pollution won't someday be gone. It must lie unperturbed for a half century in order to neutralize carbon emitted at the conference."

tinyurl.com/nxyfjue

So the "offsetting" is just a PR stunt.

[rick49]

Dec 11, 2014 7:07:58 GMT Eric said:

How long have these line lasted? And a few footprints nearby have destroyed their effect?

Hmmm.
I can see the government is going to have to stack the jury if this ever actually goes to court.
But still, in the meantime FREE TOURIST PUBLICITY!

You support the destruction of UN world heritage sites. What a shock.

[Eric]

Support?

Where?

[lala]

Dec 11, 2014 7:10:37 GMT rick49 said:

"Lima Climate Talks Set for Record Carbon Footprint"

"Hardly green, Lima U.N. climate talks on track for record carbon footprint."

LIMA, Peru (AP) — "The current U.N. climate talks will be the first to neutralize all the greenhouse gas pollution they generate, offset by host country Peru's protection of forest at three different reserves, organizers say."

"Nor is there a guarantee that the 580 square miles (1,500 square kilometers) of forest offsetting the talks' carbon pollution won't someday be gone. It must lie unperturbed for a half century in order to neutralize carbon emitted at the conference."

tinyurl.com/nxyfjue

So the "offsetting" is just a PR stunt.

Not really. It is showing that you can still do cool stuff like hold big summits and have a decent quality of life. If, in 49 years time, idiots have forgotten why lots of trees were planted, that's their look out. You can't plan for future idiocy, unless we start putting Potassium Bromide in the reservoirs in the USA.

[lala]

Dec 11, 2014 7:14:16 GMT rick49 said:

You support the destruction of UN world heritage sites. What a shock.

I'm quite opposed to the destruction of UN world heritage sites. That's why I think we need to do something about climate change.

[Scooby Do]

So, give up all the trappings of modern living.

[lala]

Um ... Where did I say that was necessary?

Plant more trees and find alternatives to burning fossil fuels.

[rick49]

"Climate scientists with the WMO and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration say surface temperature readings show that 2014 is on track to beat 1998, 2005 and 2010 as the warmest year on record — although only by “a few hundredths of a degree,” according to the WMO."

So the warmers/doomers gonna brag on a few hundredths of a degree, if it even happens, eh?


"Satellite datasets show that 2014 is nowhere near the warmest year on record, so far only ranking as the seventh warmest on record,"

“Our satellite estimates of global temperature, which have much more complete geographic coverage than thermometers, reveal that 2014 won’t be even close to a record warm year,”

"Spencer, however, argues that agencies like NOAA and WMO rely on global surface temperature readings over the land and ocean which suffer from serious quality issues. While satellites can cover every inch of the world, surface temperatures rely on weather stations, buoys and ships that don’t cover every inch of the world. In fact, one can drive hundreds (maybe even thousands) of miles between weather stations."

"The absence of weather stations covering every inch of the globe means that surface temperatures must be extrapolated over large areas that may have drastically different terrain and climates."

tinyurl.com/ppcycha

[lala]

Roy Spencer doubts climate change? What a surprise!

Still, even if we go with his (contentious) figures, it is pretty obvious that the plant is warming:



See how there have been hardly any blue stalactites since 1997? Rather suggests a planet that is warmer than it was, doesn't it?

Now look at the mighty thrusting red stalagmites. Pay particularly close attention to the ones post 2000. You'll notice how, between 2000 and 2010, most of them are well below the +0.2 line. After 2010, even the 'cooler' warm years are much closer to it, and more frequently above it.

But you are right in that one year in and of itself is not important - a point made a million times or so whenever your lot pointed to 1997 and squealed excitedly. Still, it is worth noting; perhaps naively, I hope that another 1997 beating year (2010 beat it according to most data sets) will finally junk the "1997 was the warmest year ever so there is no warming" non-argument.

The fact that the four warmest years on record have all occurred in the last 20 years, and all the top ten warmest years on record are from the last 20 years, and the fact that each of the last three decades has been warmer than the decade before, is far more important.

[rick49]

The warmers/doomers keep insisting there is no pause or slowdown of global warming. So why are the warmers/doomers bending over backwards trying to come up with excuses of why something that doesn't exist is actually happening? The list of why something that doesn't exist is happening is now up to 66.

hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/11/updated-list-of-64-excuses-for-18-26.html

[Eric]

"If you can't explain the 'pause', you can't explain the cause"

This comes from the school of thought that, if it rhymes it MUST be true, yes?


Let me illustrate.
A physicist can start his car. He can explain how the car starts, from ignition, fuel injection, compression, explosion and exhaust gasses.
If while he does this, there is a misfire on a cylinder he might not know what caused it.

However, this does not make his description of the engine function invalid.


Why don't you apply for a brain Rick, and try to stop being an American idiot?

[Scooby Do]

Dec 11, 2014 18:35:41 GMT lala said:

Um ... Where did I say that was necessary?

Plant more trees and find alternatives to burning fossil fuels.

You say we need to do something, so as a teacher, lead by example, do something rather than talk about it.

Plant trees? sure, where? what are you going to do with them? Burn them, eat them?

Stop burning fossile fuel, ok, turn off your heating.

[Eric]

How about investing in renewable energy Scoob? And in more energy efficient tools? And deploying less energy hungry processes?


Or would those things all be just "madness"?

[Scooby Do]

Can you give examples?

I'm all for energy efficiency,lower bills, less pollution et al.