Toasty!

[flatandy]

In the long term I support the move away from ICEs.

And in this instance, this is a non-complaint. The move away from ICEs, as even you know, is about carbon dioxide emissions. Not about the amount of dirt that comes off tires and brakes. And even if that were part of the problem, it appears that there's only a 20% difference between ICE and EV brake dust.

Somewhere deep under this murk of bullshit there's half of a good point - EVs are incredibly, ridiculously heavy. And that does create a lot of problems. But if was picking up worthwhile concerns that come from the weight of EVs, it would still be a long time before I was worried about the brake dust.

[perrykneeham]

He appears to be arguing that EVs produce mors tyre dust than brake dust, though I imagine both are true. Even then, so what? We're generally taking about steel and rubber here, aren't we? It's not like either component is made of DU and asbestos.

[mids]

Aren't brake pads asbestos?

[perrykneeham]

Not any more. I'm pretty sure they're not, at least.

[flatandy]

Oct 4, 2023 5:53:41 GMT perrykneeham said:

He appears to be arguing that EVs produce mors tyre dust than brake dust, though I imagine both are true. Even then, so what? We're generally taking about steel and rubber here, aren't we? It's not like either component is made of DU and asbestos.

I think he was saying that they produce both more tyre dust and more brake dust because they're heavier. It's not news - we now that EV tyres blow out a bit more often because both the extra wear from the extra weight and because they're made a bit lighter to try and eke out an extra mile or two of range that you can claim on adverts.

It is, of course, "So what?". They think it's an awesome gotcha because it's an emission from EVs. Even if that emission is not carbon dioxide and is, overall, tiny, and is also an emission that comes from ICEs. It's a ridiculously pointless claim but they throw as much of this at the wall as they possibly can in the hope that someone, somewhere, will bite.

They've already got right wing politicians somehow thinking that EVs are "woke" and that the transition to EVs will put everyone out of a job and destroy the economy and hand the global economy to China and so on. Which is weird, because even the car manufacturers* want to make the transition and are pissed off with both Rishi Sunak for changing the UK's final transition date and with US Republicans for trying to sabotage the change.

* apart from Toyota, but they want to transition to hydrogen fuel cells.

[rick49]

sure. shut down the computers of anyone who disagrees. that'll show and "educate" em.

Climate Activists Defend Spreading Computer Malware to Educate Skeptics
wattsupwiththat.com/2023/09/30/climate-activists-defend-spreading-computer-malware-to-educate-skeptics/

[rick49]

speaking of ev's.

wattsupwiththat.com/2023/10/04/ev-owners-facing-soaring-insurance-costs/

looks like they want to jack up the costs of having one so high only the wealthy will be able to afford one.

[voice]

I suspect Toyota might be going down the right path in terms of long term replacement of ICE, but until more buy into it and the infrastructure is built, it's gonna be hard to buy a fuel cell car. Vancouver has a few places you can fill up at, but the closest to me is nearly 100km away.

I was looking at their fuel cell car recently, on paper its a better bet than an EV but I'll probably have to go with an EV just cos you can charge those things most places these days, but I do think it's impossible to replace ICE with just EVs simply cos the minerals used in vatteries are in shorter supply, and as batter technology is not much more advanced than ut was 40 years ago the weight and range will remain a limiting factor

[perrykneeham]

Battery technology is a quantum leap away from where it was years ago, as any user of tools will tell you. In part, that's more to do with microprocessors (I think) as the theoretical potential of, say, Lithium was well understood, but tricky to harness.

[perrykneeham]

I'm looking to buy a folding ebike at the moment. Some of the claims for range seem very optimistic. We'll see, but if they can haul my porky carcass for 12 miles each way, that will be very satisfactory.

[flatandy]

E-assist, right, not electric motorbike? E-assist bikes range seems to be very dependent on how willing you are to do a bit of work. And how hilly it is.

If I had to commute I'd be on an e-bike, I think. They're very good these days. The only downside is people on e-bikes looking smug when they pass people on real bikes cycling up hills, which is really not the right approach - ebikes and real bikes serve different purposes.

[flatandy]

Deep down, by the way, Rick's link gets to an interesting point: insurers don't have enough statistical data to know what to do with EVs, and repair costs for EVs can also be very high because nobody really knows what to trust and what not to with broken batteries so they have a little prang and the entire battery gets swapped up. So EV insurance prices are all over the place. I expect it to settle down fine in a while, but it's a bit chaotic at the moment.

And yes, there is a potential problem of a shortage of battery materials in the future. But no real sign of it yet. Lithium is not particularly scarce.

[perrykneeham]

Oct 4, 2023 19:27:29 GMT flatandy said:

E-assist, right, not electric motorbike? E-assist bikes range seems to be very dependent on how willing you are to do a bit of work. And how hilly it is.

If I had to commute I'd be on an e-bike, I think. They're very good these days. The only downside is people on e-bikes looking smug when they pass people on real bikes cycling up hills, which is really not the right approach - ebikes and real bikes serve different purposes.

Yeah, e-assist. The route is pretty flat and almost all on dedicated cycle paths. I want a folding job so that I can bring it indoors to charge and so it doesn't get nicked.

[flatandy]

I hope you're looking at something like the S-Works Turbo Creo. Almost nobody would even think you're on a road bike.

[voice]

how the hell can they justify 12k for a bike?

[flatandy]

Because it's awesome?

What I don't really understand is how anyone can justify spending 12 grand on an e-bike. The whole point about an ebike is that it doesn't need all the things that you need on a proper road bike: for one, you aren't racing it, and for two, you have a motor to help you uphill so you don't need to scrape off fractions of a gram in thinner, lighter carbon and a thinner, lighter cassette.

[voice]

Its carmageddon

www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-67005620

[rick49]

Great Travel Reset: Poll: 41% of French population favors restricting everyone to only 4 airplane flights in their entire life
wattsupwiththat.com/2023/10/01/great-travel-reset-poll-41-of-french-population-favors-restricting-everyone-to-only-4-airplane-flights-in-their-entire-life-to-fight-against-global-warming/

probably excluding the rich and famous of course because they're important.

[rick49]

Europe Launches a Carbon Tax Attack Against the US Economy
wattsupwiththat.com/2023/10/01/eu-launches-a-carbon-tax-attack-on-the-us-economy/

[flatandy]

Good.

The whining in the article is astonishing and incoherent, particularly the fact that it's whining about us not helping our allies who helped Ukraine at the same time as whining about an exemption that helps Ukraine. But the whole thing is gibbering dribble.