**Brexit Jokes & Comments Thread**

[flatandy]

You're still missing the point, then.

[Deleted]

"Theresa May does not intend to trigger article 50 this year, court told."

Here...

[flatandy]

I don't think even the most optimistic Brexiter thought it would happen before then, OOTLG.

[Deleted]

September was Cameron's exit point. Until he decided to buck out of course. This must go through parliament of course.

[auldhippy]

Jul 19, 2016 15:11:08 GMT clarity said:

Jul 19, 2016 14:37:27 GMT auldhippy said:

Because they exist to keep foreigners out.

No they don't. Foreigners can enter a country with border controls with the right documentation.


Posted by bertruss2
13 minutes ago
'Taking control of our borders' in Brexit-speak means preventing foreigners from taking up residence or working in the UK without the Ministry of Immigration applying miles of red tape to their applications. It doesn't mean 'checking passports'. That happens anyway. It is senseless to take away the right of European citizens to live, work and study in another EU country to placate the post-imperial fantasies of British pensioners and the hankering after industrial era conditions in parts of England where there were secure, well-paying jobs for the minimally educated.

Right, I get that Bertie, as it applies to Brexit. But why is it that other countries who are not part of the EU have border controls? It's not xenophobic to want to control who comes into the country, well maybe if you live in the US it might be. Surely countries have a right to control who comes in and reaps the benefits?

Yeah you're right and your first nation folk wrong.

[bertruss2]

Countries don't have an obligation to take in unskilled workers from around the world who are looking for a better life and a free ride courtesy of benefit programs.

That has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. It's about the Uk taking away from its own citizens the right to live, work and study in 27 other countries with minimum formalities and denying that right to the citizens of the other 27 countries in Britain. It's taking power from people to make their own arrangements and putting power in the hands of bureaucrats.

[perrykneeham]

Jul 19, 2016 17:00:35 GMT bertruss2 said:

It's taking power from people to make their own arrangements and putting power in the hands of bureaucrats.

Actually, it's the polar opposite of that.

[flatandy]

It really is taking peoples' power to choose for themselves where they want to live and work, and putting it into the hands of the bureaucratic arseholes at various border agencies and immigration departments

[perrykneeham]

Jul 19, 2016 17:20:43 GMT flatandy said:

It really is taking peoples' power to choose for themselves where they want to live and work, and putting it into the hands of the bureaucratic arseholes at various border agencies and immigration departments

Nah. It isn't. They've made their choice about how they want their affairs to be handled. I know you don't like it, but I can't help that.

[flatandy]

I see you're deliberately being stupid, aren't you?

[perrykneeham]

Nope. Statement of fact. De-moh-crah-see. Innit?

[flatandy]

I am talking about individuals' choices. Individuals' choices on where to live and work are being taken away from those individuals, and handed to the UK borders agency and the home office (and to equivalent agencies in France and Germany and Sweden).

[flatandy]

But if you couldn't work that out, you were being deliberately stupid.

[perrykneeham]

Well, what you proposing is that every imdividual UK subject enters into an agreement with the EU. That seems a little long-winded if you don't mind me saying so FA.

Should they negotiate individual trade tariffs too?

[flatandy]

You really are deliberately being astonishingly stupid, even by your own standards here.

I'm suggesting that the current system has the power in the hands of individuals as to where they want to work and live in the EU. Brexit will almost certainly mean that we are moving that power into the hands of bureaucrats in the French and Portuguese and Dutch "Home Offices". We are, as Bertie says, moving power and decision making from individuals to unelected bureaucrats.

Despite you claiming that it's the polar opposite.

[perrykneeham]

I'm suggesting that the current system has the power in the hands of individuals as to where they want to work and live in the EU. Brexit will almost certainly mean that we are moving that power into the hands of bureaucrats in the French and Portuguese and Dutch "Home Offices".[/quote]


Except that you've got no reason to say that anything is almost certain. There's no reason whatsoever that the existing arrangements won't be retained. Project Fear silliness.

[flatandy]

Well, the person tasked with negotiating Brexit claims he wants out of the single market in part because he wants to end free movement. One of the key arguments used in the Brexit campaign was against free movement.

I think it's safe to assume that, unless someone negotiating for Brexit tells us otherwise, Brexit will reduce freedom of movement. Which, just to reiterate, takes the freedom of choice and power from individuals, and gives it that choice and power to bureaucrats.

[clarity]

Jul 19, 2016 16:47:33 GMT auldhippy said:

Jul 19, 2016 15:11:08 GMT clarity said:

No they don't. Foreigners can enter a country with border controls with the right documentation.


Posted by bertruss2
13 minutes ago
'Taking control of our borders' in Brexit-speak means preventing foreigners from taking up residence or working in the UK without the Ministry of Immigration applying miles of red tape to their applications. It doesn't mean 'checking passports'. That happens anyway. It is senseless to take away the right of European citizens to live, work and study in another EU country to placate the post-imperial fantasies of British pensioners and the hankering after industrial era conditions in parts of England where there were secure, well-paying jobs for the minimally educated.

Right, I get that Bertie, as it applies to Brexit. But why is it that other countries who are not part of the EU have border controls? It's not xenophobic to want to control who comes into the country, well maybe if you live in the US it might be. Surely countries have a right to control who comes in and reaps the benefits?

Yeah you're right and your first nation folk wrong.

Are we talking about 2016 or 1616 here AH? If you want to go that far back what about the picts or the celts who got slaughtered by various tribes from Europe? It's all history and we're where we are now and discussing border border control and how the left have linked it to xenophobia. Border control works for millions of people who travel. When people throw around statements saying border control is xenophobic I will call them on it because it works for many countries around the world and has nothing to do with xenophobia. I don't really care if Europe has free movement of people or not, I don't live there so why would I care. However, I do live in a country which does have border controls and I would like them to remain for reasons I've already mentioned and I don't see that as being xenophobic. I don't expect you, of all people, to understand my position, after all you think I'm racist for speaking out about muslim men who sexually assault women.

[jimboky]

Clarity is spot on, there are border controls between Canada and USA, people seem to manage to cross though both ways,

[clarity]

Jul 19, 2016 17:00:35 GMT bertruss2 said:

Countries don't have an obligation to take in unskilled workers from around the world who are looking for a better life and a free ride courtesy of benefit programs.

That has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. It's about the Uk taking away from its own citizens the right to live, work and study in 27 other countries with minimum formalities and denying that right to the citizens of the other 27 countries in Britain. It's taking power from people to make their own arrangements and putting power in the hands of bureaucrats.

Yes, it does because people are equating border controls with xenophobia. I was pointing out that border controls exist because of those reasons.

How has the right to live, work and study in 27 other countries been taken away? Members of my family went to live and work in Europe before the EU and it wasn't a lot of fuss and bother for them to get there. I currently have relatives, 2 cousins and their families who have lived and worked in France, long before the EU and the Schengen agreement, and another cousin who has lived in and worked in Germany for years too. UK citizens were moving to live and work in Europe before the Schengen agreement and they will continue to do so after Brexit. It's nonsense to say people are denied a choice. The choice was there before and it will remain after Brexit.