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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 19:58:47 GMT
Clarity is spot on, there are border controls between Canada and USA, people seem to manage to cross though both ways, The couple of times I've been over that border it's been a complete pain in the arse. And, frankly, there's no reason to really have border controls between Canada and the US. |
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Post by jimboky on Jul 19, 2016 20:00:56 GMT
You cannot cross either way with a criminal record, neither Canada or USA wants to change that
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 19, 2016 20:01:28 GMT
I've crossed the Canada/US border too. It's a piece of pish except when you accidentally disobey the US border guard.
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 20:02:10 GMT
How has the right to live, work and study in 27 other countries been taken away? Members of my family went to live and work in Europe before the EU and it wasn't a lot of fuss and bother for them to get there. There's a difference between an ability and a right. I live in the US, but that doesn't mean all British people have a right to live in the US. My ability to live in the US is dependent on decisions of people in the State Department and the USCIS. And it was an absolutely massive fuss and a pain in the arse and took years, and a fair amount of stress. If, instead, I'd chosen to live in Germany it would have been as trivial as getting on a train and going there. |
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Post by clarity on Jul 19, 2016 20:04:18 GMT
You're still missing the point, then. No. I get that you don't like it and have given your opinion as I have done. I think you're being overly pessimistic about it. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 20:07:53 GMT
I've crossed the Canada/US border too. It's a piece of pish except when you accidentally disobey the US border guard. There were monstrous queues wasting hours of my time driving up I-5 to the border between Seattle and Vancouver. And there was an officious wanker being a complete shitbag at the one-horse border post between Waterton Lakes and Glacier National Park. Totally unnecessary in either case. Silly. Pointless. Bureaucratic. Wasteful of resources and money and of peoples' time. Shouldn't exist between countries of broadly equal development. Canada and US should have their own "schengen-esque" zone. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 20:09:31 GMT
You're still missing the point, then. No. I get that you don't like it and have given your opinion as I have done. I think you're being overly pessimistic about it. No. You're still missing the point. I've never had any problems travelling from Schengen Countries to the UK. But that doesn't mean problems don't exist. And they're silly, unnecessary, pointless problems caused by officious shitbags and ludicrous rules and could be eliminated by joining Schengen. |
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 19, 2016 20:12:31 GMT
I've crossed the Canada/US border too. It's a piece of pish except when you accidentally disobey the US border guard. There were monstrous queues wasting hours of my time driving up I-5 to the border between Seattle and Vancouver. And there was an officious wanker being a complete shitbag at the one-horse border post between Waterton Lakes and Glacier National Park. Totally unnecessary in either case. Silly. Pointless. Bureaucratic. Wasteful of resources and money and of peoples' time. Shouldn't exist between countries of broadly equal development. Canada and US should have their own "schengen-esque" zone. I agree. It's such a massive border that a few dozen checkpoints (or however many) seems pointless for Yanks and Canadian citizens. I can see why I'd have to be scrutinised though. |
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Post by clarity on Jul 19, 2016 20:14:47 GMT
Clarity is spot on, there are border controls between Canada and USA, people seem to manage to cross though both ways, The couple of times I've been over that border it's been a complete pain in the arse. And, frankly, there's no reason to really have border controls between Canada and the US. I've never had a problem crossing into the states and back again at land borders. I go frequently, at least once a month, sometimes just for the day. Your statement re border controls between Canada and the US is a different discussion though. I would challenge you on that too. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 20:15:45 GMT
But I reckon you'd be scrutinised enough when you first fly into Vegas or Toronto, and don't need extra scrutiny from then onwards.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 22:04:59 GMT
So it's agreed - sensible countries have border controls which is why 100% of countries have border controls and 0% have zero border controls.
And most countries don't think "but it will inconvenience Fandy and his mates!!1!1"! Is a convenient reason for doing away with them...
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 22:14:20 GMT
Even if it only inconvenienced me and nobody else, we should do away with it unless someone can point to actual benefits. Is Portugal any worse off for having a Schengen border with Spain than Britain is for not having a Schengen border with Spain?
Didn't think so. Wasteful and pointless.
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 22:15:35 GMT
You may also have noticed that at no point have I talked about having no border controls.
I'm glad that you now accept that Britain does have border controls and does control its border. It felt like it's taken a long time for you to get to that position.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 22:18:44 GMT
Well you may think they're wasteful and pointless - luckily the powers that be disagree as, it turns out, do a majority of the British public.
Awesome.
It's impossible to join Schengen and have any say over who can come into the country (or even know if they have the right to be in the UK) so sensible us for opting out.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 22:20:38 GMT
You may also have noticed that at no point have I talked about having no border controls. I'm glad that you now accept that Britain does have border controls and does control its border. It felt like it's taken a long time for you to get to that position. Britain doesn't control its border fully. We have no say over who can home here from the EU. We are, luckily allowed to check people entering thanks to joining the cluster that is Schengen, but without the ability to deny entry or restrict numbers it's not fully in our control. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 22:26:17 GMT
You say "luckily" but you haven't yet explained how Portugal has been harmed in a way Britain hasn't due to its membership of Schengen.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 22:35:35 GMT
You say "luckily" but you haven't yet explained how Portugal has been harmed in a way Britain hasn't due to its membership of Schengen. Why? Whether Portugal thinks it's been harmed or not is irrelevant. I've explained already why we don't need and should not be part of Schengen as without immigration points we cannot and have no capacity to check who is entering (the UK being a sightly more desirable end point with would be emmigres). I think inconveniencing your mates is a more than acceptable price to pay for that. And luckily most Britons (including government) agree. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 22:43:05 GMT
So you've still not explained why we need the capacity to check who is entering from Schengen countries.
Of course, I am reminded that Britain does in fact have a completely open border with Ireland. Why would having the same agreement with Portugal as we have with Ireland be at all damaging?
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Jul 19, 2016 22:45:24 GMT
Everyone who comes from outside the Union is subject to passport controls and whatever visa requirements are in force. Just think of the 500 million European citizens as having the same right to travel around the Union as Americans have within their Union.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 22:53:59 GMT
Key word "outside".
Not good enough. The EU isn't America, no matter how much people like you wish it were.
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