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Post by Repat Van on Jul 20, 2016 21:46:50 GMT
Yeah, but Fox ran for PM without apparently having any idea of how he was going to plan for Brexit, continuing his programme of wanting something but not really knowing how he was going to get it. Much like the many times he's run to be Tory leader without having any support. True. But he didn't get it, so that's that. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 20, 2016 21:48:30 GMT
Why would a Remainer work on their exit strategy before Brexit happened? Because that's what real governments do. But they don't want to exit. Why work on an exit strategy for a political strategy you are opposed to? It makes sense to expect Brexiters to have a detailed exit strategy but Bremainers? Not so much. (Plus any strategy will need EU sign off.) |
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flatandy
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Post by flatandy on Jul 20, 2016 21:49:18 GMT
But May has decided to appoint 3 people to negotiate Brexit who, when they were campaigning for Brexit, didn't appear to have any idea how they'd negotiate it.
It doesn't inspire confidence. It does reflect less badly on the people who wanted to remain that they didn't make contingencies, in comparison to those three.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 20, 2016 21:51:33 GMT
But May has decided to appoint 3 people to negotiate Brexit who, when they were campaigning for Brexit, didn't appear to have any idea how they'd negotiate it. It doesn't inspire confidence. It does reflect less badly on the people who wanted to remain that they didn't make contingencies, in comparison to those three. Yep I haven't argued that Brexiters didn't need an exit strategy (even if in reality, at this point it could only be aspirational.) But they have time to develop that now in detail. Triggering article 50 is quite some way away. |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 21, 2016 0:51:01 GMT
& those shouting democracy has spoken can piss off too. We are a parliamentary democracy, 70% of parliament and all parties except the racist one was for Bremain. It's farcicle to elect decision makers and then make the decisions. Is it not worrying how different the mood of parliament is to the rest of the country? Not remotely, we pay top money for informed decisions. If we had a referendum on capital punishment likey the country would vote for, particularily if there were a Lee Rigby type event the day before, but more informed better researched decision making by MPs gives us better decisions. This was a terrible decision made by ill informed mob. |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 21, 2016 0:58:28 GMT
Because that's what real governments do. But they don't want to exit. Why work on an exit strategy for a political strategy you are opposed to? It makes sense to expect Brexiters to have a detailed exit strategy but Bremainers? Not so much. (Plus any strategy will need EU sign off.) The EU need do nothjng except stop sending us invoices, the EU isn't changing, We are. We' cancelled our membership,the EU graciously gives us 2 years to make other arrangements, apparantly they have nothing we want,, we don't get half the CD collection, we leave, end of. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 21, 2016 0:59:19 GMT
Is it not worrying how different the mood of parliament is to the rest of the country? Not remotely, we pay top money for informed decisions. If we had a referendum on capital punishment likey the country would vote for, particularily if there were a Lee Rigby type event the day before, but more informed better researched decision making by MPs gives us better decisions. This was a terrible decision made by ill informed mob. I know the class system is entrenched in the UK but do you really believe all MPs by dint of being MPs are brilliantly knowledgeable? And even if they are is it not possible to hold a different view of you are a member of the political class who really will not have to deal with any of the downsides of EU membership? Anyway it's more than that - many of them seem shocked that the county even selected Brexit. The fact they seemed utterly unaware of the level of opposition to the EU is frightening... |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 21, 2016 1:01:47 GMT
Also I am not particularly sure having a different view makes you ill informed. I don't think those who would vote for capital punishment don't know what it is. They just have a different view to those who oppose it.
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flatandy
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Post by flatandy on Jul 21, 2016 1:14:18 GMT
The theory, in a representative democracy, is that the public aren't qualified to make every decision. They don't have sufficient time to become sufficiently informed about the legalities or implications of, say, finding ways to fund HS2, or the way tenders are put out for work done on hospitals. This is also true on other things, like whether it's sensible to go to war with Iraq, or whether we should have a death penalty.
The public devolves that power to their representatives, who in theory have the time, resources and expertise to come to a sensible decision.
Clearly, MPs don't always come to sensible decisions, but if you don't think MPs are qualified to make decisions for you, then you're arguing against the entire constitutional set up of the UK, and several centuries of British history.
It's not a class thing. It's a "that's the whole point of representative, parliamentary democracy" thing.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 21, 2016 1:26:39 GMT
Ok look I know there are chunky is people who think the populace is too stupid to know if they want to be in a political entity or not but they have been asked (much as the Scots were asked about leaving the UK) and they answered.
It seems now to just be a lot of belly aching because a lot of people did not like that answer.
To be honest I think a referendum was a necessary thing. The UK had been the EUs problem child for a while wanting into the union but with a large number of exemptions to how it operates. Just asking once and for all "in or out" was really the way to go.
Also it's not about thinking that MPs are my qualified to make decisions for you. It's about acknowledging that on a pretty major issue there are no MPs representing your view point. Well there are a handful but they're crazy.
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lala
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Post by lala on Jul 21, 2016 2:06:46 GMT
Ok look I know there are chunky is people who think the populace is too stupid to know if they want to be in a political entity or not but they have been asked (much as the Scots were asked about leaving the UK) and they answered. It seems now to just be a lot of belly aching because a lot of people did not like that answer. If we may go back to Mr Dawkins for a moment, his comments were made BEFORE the referendum. Many other people expressed concerns before as well. A referendum was a pretty silly idea, offered for self serving reasons and clearly without giving thought to the possibility that the prle smight vote wrongly. Cameron should probably be on trial for something or other. |
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Post by Minge är en jävla besserwisser on Jul 21, 2016 6:00:37 GMT
It's thursday. Shall I get on with my life or shall I soil myself today?
Let me see, which way did I vote?
Oh, I voted remain. I'd better soil myself.
I'm off to find a nappy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 6:49:50 GMT
Turncoat. Or are you simply playing to the audience to gain favour with van? Or (well you never can tell these days) mids?
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 21, 2016 7:31:40 GMT
It's thursday. Shall I get on with my life or shall I soil myself today? Let me see, which way did I vote? Oh, I voted remain. I'd better soil myself. I'm off to find a nappy. Could be worse - I apparently have to go and punch a foreigner. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 21, 2016 7:32:15 GMT
Turncoat. Or are you simply playing to the audience to gain favour with van? Or (well you never can tell these days) mids? Eh? You can be a Remainer and still the showers of piss annoying. |
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Jul 21, 2016 7:33:38 GMT
Is it not worrying how different the mood of parliament is to the rest of the country? Not remotely, we pay top money for informed decisions. If we had a referendum on capital punishment likey the country would vote for, particularily if there were a Lee Rigby type event the day before, but more informed better researched decision making by MPs gives us better decisions. This was a terrible decision made by ill informed mob. Top money for informed decisions? More informed better researched decision making by MP's? Yet Blair still managed to have his war in Iraq. |
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Post by Minge är en jävla besserwisser on Jul 21, 2016 8:10:20 GMT
Is it not worrying how different the mood of parliament is to the rest of the country? Not remotely, we pay top money for informed decisions. If we had a referendum on capital punishment likey the country would vote for, particularily if there were a Lee Rigby type event the day before, but more informed better researched decision making by MPs gives us better decisions. This was a terrible decision made by ill informed mob. No referendi then, ever? |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 21, 2016 9:08:05 GMT
Not remotely, we pay top money for informed decisions. If we had a referendum on capital punishment likey the country would vote for, particularily if there were a Lee Rigby type event the day before, but more informed better researched decision making by MPs gives us better decisions. This was a terrible decision made by ill informed mob. I know the class system is entrenched in the UK but do you really believe all MPs by dint of being MPs are brilliantly knowledgeable? And even if they are is it not possible to hold a different view of you are a member of the political class who really will not have to deal with any of the downsides of EU membership? Anyway it's more than that - many of them seem shocked that the county even selected Brexit. The fact they seemed utterly unaware of the level of opposition to the EU is frightening... It's got feck all to do with the class system. The MP's are paid to to find out all about what they are voting for, The electorate is made up from all types from those who have the inclination and wherewithall to do some research to those who vote purely on instinct or by party line. You can't really believe that all the electorate in the Referendum fully understood what they were voting for surely? I don't believe many MPs fully understood all the intricacies but at least they are paid to find out as much as possible and likely the daily constituency work bring them experience in what they have to deal with. It's how parliamentary democracies work. |
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lala
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Post by lala on Jul 21, 2016 9:12:27 GMT
It's thursday. Shall I get on with my life or shall I soil myself today? Let me see, which way did I vote? Oh, I voted remain. I'd better soil myself. I'm off to find a nappy. I wasn't aware you were compelled to open threads, far less comment on them. Sounds like you're having some sort of mini-tanty all by yourselfie-welfie. Maybe that nappy is in order. We could stop talking about it, but as it seems to be the only thing we all still have to talk about, if we do perhaps we should all wander off into our various sunsets. |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 21, 2016 9:15:28 GMT
Not remotely, we pay top money for informed decisions. If we had a referendum on capital punishment likey the country would vote for, particularily if there were a Lee Rigby type event the day before, but more informed better researched decision making by MPs gives us better decisions. This was a terrible decision made by ill informed mob. Top money for informed decisions? More informed better researched decision making by MP's? Yet Blair still managed to have his war in Iraq. Yeah let's have referendi on starting wars!! Idiot! |
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