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Post by Marshall on Sept 26, 2019 0:44:43 GMT
It's because if he goes down he'll take as many people with him as possible.
He demands loyalty (even from the FBI) but shows none for anyone else.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 26, 2019 0:52:34 GMT
Nice to see how much he supports his ambassadors so much, 'the last one was really really baaaaaaad' glad we pulled her early....
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Post by Marshall on Sept 26, 2019 0:55:57 GMT
When things start to get bad enough, there will be some Republicans (esp. those up for re-election next year) that will turn on him.
That's when you'll start hearing all the "I never really supported Trump" and "I had deep concerns" bullshit spewing from their mouths. You can bet on it.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 26, 2019 3:13:48 GMT
I think they are so much under his thrall the majority will stick with him. The days when the reps put country befor party, as the reps did in the early 70s, are long past. They are happy Russia made sure a democrat didn't win last time and don't care if Ukrain digs dirt on Biden as long a rep wins next time. They are simply not patriots anymore.
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Post by flatandy on Sept 26, 2019 13:25:56 GMT
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Post by Marshall on Sept 27, 2019 18:41:28 GMT
Looks like very strong sauce. The phone call was so innocent that they felt the need to cover it up even.
I think the tide is turning here, rats are going to start jumping the ship soon.
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Post by Marshall on Sept 27, 2019 18:50:04 GMT
Looks like this was something that took place over time (not just a single phone call) with several other individuals involved.
Trump already threw his VP under the bus, the AG is involved, as is his personal (wacko) lawyer Rudy Guliani - who else?
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Post by flatandy on Sept 27, 2019 19:03:34 GMT
Well, all the Whitehouse lawyers are implicated if they told him to move the call recording to a separate server. Because they're meant to be working to protect the Presidency; if instead they acted to protect the President's private re-election stuff they might be going down, too. Pompeo's in on it, because Rudy! tells us that the State Department sent him to Ukraine. All those ambassadors who were sent to the Ukraine are in the sh*t...
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Post by Marshall on Sept 27, 2019 19:14:38 GMT
All pointing to a big conspiracy. Gotta love those rule-of-law republicans.
Also makes you wonder what his private conversations with Putin were all about.
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Post by flatandy on Sept 27, 2019 20:05:22 GMT
I really don't think there's a big conspiracy in the traditional sense. I suspect that basically everyone is just always tidying up Trump's moronic f**k ups, and they've become so attuned to it that they didn't stop to think that this was so illegal that they might get locked up. It's a wideish conspiracy, but it's shallow.
It's all based on stupidity and hubris rather than anything profound, macchiavellian and brilliant.
It largely seems to be based on Trump believing conspiranoid websites that there was a single DNC server that was squirreled away to the Ukraine, and that would get Manafort's sentence revoked and finally find Hillary's emails, and at the same time discover the mysterious truth about Biden even though all the evidence in this instance points to Biden not being guilty.
(I mean, there are a million questions about how Hunter Biden got the gig at a Ukrainian power company in the first place, given his lack of experience of Eastern Europe, and power companies - but that question is about nepotism, and the belief that companies have that getting close to power is good for them: And if you start that line of questioning, you raise quite a lot more doubts about Ivanka, Jared, Donald Jr and Eric...)
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 27, 2019 20:14:08 GMT
There's also a strand of Trump continuing to desperately disprove Russia helped him win, he wants to have history rewritten to say he won it all on his own merit. Also in he can get the idea that it wasn't Russia in 2016 he can get sanctions lifted on his handler and maybe even get him back into the G7/8
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Post by flatandy on Sept 27, 2019 20:25:16 GMT
I'm ever increasingly sure that he doesn't have a Russian handler (and I never thought he did). He's just a monstrous egomaniacal idiot - and your first point holds. He can't accept that he had a super lucky win with a minority of the electorate and with Russians trying to f**k around with the election So, as you say, he's still trying to prove that there was no Russian interference, even though it makes no difference, and even though everyone knows that there was.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 27, 2019 21:17:31 GMT
Well probably but he's done so much to try and help Russia beat sanctions and try and rehabilitate Putin there's always gonna a doubt about who's he's really working for and it doesn't help the Moscow Mitch is playing a similar game lifting sanctions so a plant can built in Kentucky among other favours he's handed out to various oligarchs
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 27, 2019 23:21:37 GMT
Now this
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has been ordered by Democrats to turn over documents relating to the Trump administration's dealings with Ukraine.
In a letter, the heads of three House committees subpoenaed Mr Pompeo to produce the documents within a week.
It is the latest move in rapidly escalating impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump.
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Post by Marshall on Sept 27, 2019 23:54:13 GMT
Yep, and the impeachment process will speed up all the related Trump matters being held up in the courts.
The first GOP congressman just came out in favor of impeachment (Mark Amodei, Nevada).
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Post by Marshall on Sept 28, 2019 0:19:39 GMT
Trump's envoy to the Ukraine (Kurt Volker) has now resigned as he gets pulled into the mess.
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Post by flatandy on Sept 29, 2019 1:03:21 GMT
So, where are we at this point:
Trump trying to get a foreign country to interfere in the US election of 2020 (which, on its own, is obviously impeachable) Trump trying to get that same foreign country to turn over non-existent servers because of his paranoid delusions which demand that he show that he won 2016 without any outside action at all Trump telling the Russians (ironically) that he didn't care about foreign interference in our elections Recordings of both sets of conversations illegally hidden on "high classification" systems Trump using a mafia shakedown technique to blackmail the Ukrainians into interfering Giuiliani saying he was in Ukraine on private election business then claiming he was sent by the state department, which means it would be illegal Bill Barr being implicated in all of this Mike Pence being potentially implicated in this by Trump Mike Pompeo being implicated in this through Giuiliani's claims about the state department The conversation with Russia being withheld from Mueller and therefore a clear obstruction of justice/piece of perjury
I feel like I've missed out a few elements of this, too
Anyway, it appears that none of our right-wingers are yet able to tell us if any of this is inappropriate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 6:27:42 GMT
Crunch time. He'll buy his way out or go down.
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 29, 2019 8:09:07 GMT
That's what you said last time. And the time before that and the time before that and...etc...
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Post by flatandy on Sept 29, 2019 21:15:10 GMT
So the best that even Mids can do is: "I hope it'll go away" rather than "it's totally fine and acceptable behaviour".
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