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Post by Minge är en jävla besserwisser on Sept 28, 2020 14:15:57 GMT
How do the left keep losing?
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Post by flatandy on Sept 28, 2020 14:43:16 GMT
In the US it's because the right have rigged the game. A reminder once again that the right have only won the popular vote in a Presidential election once in over 30 years, and that's in spite of all the right's efforts to limit voting to rich old white men as much as possible.
In fact, the rigged game is also why the right have stayed in power so much in the UK. Right wing parties didn't win the majority of the electoral vote in 2019, 2017, 2010, 2005, 2001, 1997, 1992, 1987, 1983, 1979, 1974 (twice), 1970, 1966... etc... etc... 2015 was the only UK general election in half a century where right wing parties won more votes the center-left parties.
Basically, the right keep winning in countries that don't have properly functional democracies.
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 28, 2020 14:45:09 GMT
How do the left keep losing? See above.
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Post by Minge är en jävla besserwisser on Sept 28, 2020 15:02:15 GMT
Ah that old number. We'' count people who didn't vote for us as perople who did.
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Post by flatandy on Sept 28, 2020 15:36:56 GMT
As I said, the only way a loser like Trump can get into power is because the system allows him to "win" while being hugely unpopular. Amazingly, despite all these comically huge structural advantages in his favour, he's so f**k**g useless that he needs to set up the court to rule in his favour when he loses even more badly next time, and even then the margins will probably be so big against him that it won't work.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 28, 2020 15:44:12 GMT
Vote numbers are irrelevant to Trump he's already said the only legitimate election is if he wins, if more voted are against him its only going to be because of fraud or how badly its rigged against him. Win loose or draw he's not leaving. We are potentially seeing the end of American democracy, sure its been sick for a while, but Trump and the GOP are delivering the final blow.
There was some bloke from a democracy watchdog on TV, that tracks the rise and fall of democracy, and no country that's slipped so far towards autocracy as the US has dome under Trump and Moscow Mitch has ever brought themselves back.
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 28, 2020 16:02:56 GMT
I'll be voting Tory in the upcoming US election.
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Post by flatandy on Sept 28, 2020 16:09:10 GMT
I think that's excessively pessimistic, Voice. I mean, US "democracy" has always been a bit tenuous and Trump and Mitch are trying to make it even more tenuous. But that is in fact increasing evidence that they're really, really bad at actual politics, and that their policies and positions are overwhelmingly unpopular. They need these things because they know they can't win under a fair system where every citizien's vote counts equally.
They have effectively admitted defeat in straight up democratic terms. And with a moderately good turnout in November they'll be so crushed in electoral terms that the game will be over for them and Trump will be left with nothing except trying to fend off his creditors.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 28, 2020 16:30:44 GMT
It might be pessimistic, but we learned last week the Pentagon is preparing for him refusing to leave office as are sections of the military who have said they would not step in to remove him should he refuse to leave when he looses, and may actually block attempts to do so.
So lots in the know are already planning based on him refusing to go.
My bet is he simply declares himself the winner as the polls close and say anything that shows different is rigged. We already are seeing GOP run states preparing to ignore the election results and appoint GOP loyalists as their state electors. They are also trying to simply not even count postal and absentee votes. The GOP have for decades been fundamentally undemocratic, they are just no longer even pretending to favour free and fair elections and are just brazen in their attempts to kill US democracy.
There's a reason Trump and Mitch faun over Putin, he's their roll model. Sure the US, like Russia, will continue to have elections after this one, but if Trump and Mitch get their way US elections will be as meaningful as those Putin holds.
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 28, 2020 16:34:26 GMT
<shakes fist at Russian collusion>
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Post by unclejunior on Sept 28, 2020 16:36:26 GMT
As we get closer and closer to election day, we can expect ever increasing propaganda from the MSM – something new every day, something bad about Trump- and it will get ever more hysterical. Expect the NYT and WP to take a lead in the US while El Beeb Guardian and Channel4 head up the anti-Trump campaign in GB. What will they unearth/ makeup next? Meanwhile we can only imagine the destruction that will be unleashed if Trump were actually to win.... Might be better to let Harris take the White House to spare us the mayhem 🙁
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Post by flatandy on Sept 28, 2020 16:52:54 GMT
It was always nearly the best idea to let Harris take the White House (Warren would have been the only better option). I'm glad you agree.
Also, interesting you seem horrified at the media "unearthing" things about people in power. It's almost as if you're terrified of the very idea of investigative journalism and a functioning press.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 28, 2020 16:53:32 GMT
So UJ, you are simply going to pretend non of what we know about Trump is true and that anything in the actual media is made up?
And you wonder why rational people describe you lot as being culty?
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 28, 2020 17:05:04 GMT
And really at this point Trump is less running for reelection as running from the Law.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 28, 2020 17:18:29 GMT
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Post by unclejunior on Sept 28, 2020 17:44:50 GMT
The press have been ridiculously biased & hysterically anti Trump for his whole term . While that is fine for the NYT & CNN msnbc et al it is not fine for the Beeb who should be unbiased according to their founding charter and should be held to account. I also genuinely fear for the consequences of a Trump victory due to the propaganda and riot fuelling nonsense that is spewed our daily to the general public in the USA . Hence my view that perhaps the Dems should win
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Post by flatandy on Sept 28, 2020 17:52:30 GMT
The press have been ridiculously biased & hysterically anti Trump for his whole term . The latter does not imply the former. It's like complaining that being hysterically anti-Stalin is being biased.
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Post by unclejunior on Sept 28, 2020 18:57:28 GMT
The press have been ridiculously biased & hysterically anti Trump for his whole term . The latter does not imply the former. It's like complaining that being hysterically anti-Stalin is being biased. That’s a stupid comparison as you well know, but typifies your recent posts. If you unable to see the flood of Fake news and bias that has been exhibited against Trump then I afraid I can’t help you ...
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Post by flatandy on Sept 28, 2020 19:34:41 GMT
I'm sure there's fake news out there. But the real news shows us what a pathetic incompetent loser Trump is. Again, in his own words, he needs another justice on the court because he needs one to rule in his favour when he tries to sabotage the election. He's so far out on a limb that he can't even trust right-wing extremist John Roberts to do his bidding. In his own tax returns he admits to tens of millions of dollars of losses a year. In his own tax returns he admits to paying less tax - effectively being even more of a loser - than a single person earning $18k a year.
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voice
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Post by voice on Sept 28, 2020 22:00:39 GMT
The press have been ridiculously biased & hysterically anti Trump for his whole term . While that is fine for the NYT & CNN msnbc et al it is not fine for the Beeb who should be unbiased according to their founding charter and should be held to account. I also genuinely fear for the consequences of a Trump victory due to the propaganda and riot fuelling nonsense that is spewed our daily to the general public in the USA . Hence my view that perhaps the Dems should win The thing is you and Trump are so far to the right almost the entire centrality media, who have been reporting these facts about Trump, is going to appear biased to you UJ, and cos the beeb doesn't just parrot the far right tropes you prefer, and that you see reflected in the bubble of Fox, infowars, and Breitbart you think they are against you. You moan about fake news, but the facts are the stuff you want to hear, that Trump is some stable genius and what's he's doing is some interdimensional chess game and that he's a financial wiz, honest as the day is ling, that drinking bleach and shining UV light up your ass cures Covid, and so on, that's the fake news here, but as Truth is Trumps biggest enemy you have to continue to pretend those presenting the truth are solely motivated by hated of Trump rather than the truth.
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