voice
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Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
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Post by voice on Jun 27, 2018 21:54:22 GMT
I wonder if he's going to pick a totally mental one like Giuliani.
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Post by unclejunior on Jun 28, 2018 11:12:22 GMT
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Post by flatandy on Jun 28, 2018 13:17:02 GMT
Yeah, I think there may be over-reaction to this. To be fair, I over-reacted to it when I first heard. Although the liberal over-reaction isn't 10% of the over-reaction we had from the right-wing nutters when Obama was going to replace Scalia with a moderate.
Your point about Democracy is odd, though, because Kennedy always voted against democracy anyway. He created his reputation as a moderate, but voted against voter rights, voted for purging the electoral rolls, voted for gerrymandering, voted for citizens united, voted for Bush v Gore.
Which is why the liberal reaction is an over-reaction. We're not losing someone who was defending the republic.
All we're losing is someone who voted for gay rights and to keep abortion. Which are big deals, of course.
In fact, Uncle, I'd be interested to know if you think gay people should be able to get married and if women should be able to get abortions?
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Post by unclejunior on Jun 28, 2018 13:34:26 GMT
Yes to both FA ... but I also think people are entitled to other opinions and that those opinions can be made law via the Constitution and courts in the normal way..,
The reaction to a 81 year old judge deciding to retire is ridiculous.
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Post by jimboky on Jun 28, 2018 13:40:36 GMT
Yeah, I think there may be over-reaction to this. To be fair, I over-reacted to it when I first heard. Although the liberal over-reaction isn't 10% of the over-reaction we had from the right-wing nutters when Obama was going to replace Scalia with a moderate. Your point about Democracy is odd, though, because Kennedy always voted against democracy anyway. He created his reputation as a moderate, but voted against voter rights, voted for purging the electoral rolls, voted for gerrymandering, voted for citizens united, voted for Bush v Gore. Which is why the liberal reaction is an over-reaction. We're not losing someone who was defending the republic. All we're losing is someone who voted for gay rights and to keep abortion. Which are big deals, of course. In fact, Uncle, I'd be interested to know if you think gay people should be able to get married and if women should be able to get abortions?you know these things were not illegal before the S-court, If the court were to overturn r/v/w it would not make abortions illegal everywhere in the USA, it would grant the states to chose, |
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Post by flatandy on Jun 28, 2018 14:03:53 GMT
Yes to both FA ... but I also think people are entitled to other opinions and that those opinions can be made law via the Constitution and courts in the normal way.., The reaction to a 81 year old judge deciding to retire is ridiculous. I guess that's fair enough. And, to be fair, I still don't really understand why abortion is protected by the constitution; it's as daft as protecting gun rights - the constitution theoretically should be about protecting basic democratic rights. Votes, free speech, fair due process of the law, that sort of thing. I am concerned that people will lose protections with the loss of Kennedy because a minority government (not only did 3 million fewer people vote Trump than Clinton, but current Republican senators got nearly 40 million fewer votes than current Democratic ones when they got elected) will take them away. But the time to freak out was when the right-wing basically destroyed all the constitutional norms by stopping the Garland appointment. |
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Post by jimboky on Jun 28, 2018 14:16:33 GMT
The constitution really only protected gun rights from the US government, not the states, the states were and do regulate gun rights, the 14th amendment however limits the states on how much they can limit gun rights,
I think it was Obama that said "Elections have consequences" which is true, same can be said for Senate elections, and lets not forget Harry Reid's dropping the filabuster
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Post by flatandy on Jun 28, 2018 14:20:03 GMT
you know these things were not illegal before the S-court, If the court were to overturn r/v/w it would not make abortions illegal everywhere in the USA, it would grant the states to chose, I think it's insane that the federal government doesn't absolutely protect the rights to these. It shouldn't be anything to do with the states, nor with the courts. Congress should have passed laws protecting these decades ago. But, as a state's rights person, do you think that the individual states should be allowed to control gun ownership? Do you think California should be allowed to ban almost all gun ownership? |
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mids
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Post by mids on Jun 28, 2018 14:23:35 GMT
Why the meltdown because someone's retiring? People retire. Surely it was foreseen.
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voice
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Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,191
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Post by voice on Jun 28, 2018 14:32:12 GMT
The dysfunction at the heart of the US political system was ironicly foreseen by the writers of the constitution, they tried to build a system where parties were discouraged, they tried to in hindsight get rid of the electoral collage, and while they are attributed with God like status by many in the US, they did the best they could but were far from perfect and created a system that was flawed despite their best efforts. And it's kind of muddled along more or less ok for quite a while, but it's never faced the extreme pressure it has over the last 10 of 15 years, the do nothing Congress with it's one aim, to make Obama a one term president and vote down every thing he proposed even if they agreed with the policy. Now they have Trump and it's no longer the GOP it's the Trump party, few of the GOP core values are left, internationalism, free trade, opportunity for all through graft, anti corruption in public life and so on.
Both parties have moved to the extremes though the reps moved first and farthest, and there is no attempt at compromise or shared values, in fact those who try for the center are hounded out as traitors.
Never has there been more need of a conciliatory minded leader, it's a dangerous time, and one kind of foreseen when they wrote the constitution as something to avoid.
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mids
New Member
Posts: 60,927
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Post by mids on Jun 28, 2018 15:01:33 GMT
I suppose the past few years have been a test for the system with extremists like Obama then Trump in quick succession. I'm sure they'll weather the storm and get a centrist like Reagan within the next couple of presidencies.
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Post by jimboky on Jun 28, 2018 15:38:31 GMT
you know these things were not illegal before the S-court, If the court were to overturn r/v/w it would not make abortions illegal everywhere in the USA, it would grant the states to chose, I think it's insane that the federal government doesn't absolutely protect the rights to these. It shouldn't be anything to do with the states, nor with the courts. Congress should have passed laws protecting these decades ago. But, as a state's rights person, do you think that the individual states should be allowed to control gun ownership? Do you think California should be allowed to ban almost all gun ownership? it is the 14th amendment that may keep CA from controlling guns inside of it's boarders, I would support the repeal of the 14th |
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Post by flatandy on Jun 28, 2018 15:40:09 GMT
So, you think California and New York should be allowed to ban gun ownership?
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Post by jimboky on Jun 28, 2018 15:49:14 GMT
I would not support limited 14th amendment, I would love nation wide reciprocity, but would give that up for the repeal of the 14th, but only the full repeal
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mids
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Posts: 60,927
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Post by mids on Jun 28, 2018 15:56:22 GMT
Californians are too busy wearing shorts to weddings to be interested in guns.
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Post by flatandy on Jun 28, 2018 17:34:32 GMT
Damn right. People in shorts are too relaxed to want to shoot anyone.
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Post by jimboky on Jun 28, 2018 18:01:05 GMT
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Post by unclejunior on Jul 1, 2018 21:28:29 GMT
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Post by flatandy on Jul 1, 2018 21:58:46 GMT
What is it with righties and their appallingly written faux-personal drivel?
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nobody
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Posts: 8,733 
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Post by nobody on Jul 1, 2018 22:06:55 GMT
Damn right. People in shorts are too relaxed to want to shoot anyone. Unless you’re a Ghurka? |
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