mids
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Post by mids on Apr 9, 2018 13:39:30 GMT
Girls can do what they want.
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Post by flatandy on Apr 9, 2018 13:52:29 GMT
So, you don't mind gender-neutral parenting, then?
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mids
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Post by mids on Apr 9, 2018 14:03:46 GMT
Nah it's wank. GNP is about attacking boys. I'm in favour of freedom for kids (FFK).
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Post by Repat Van on Apr 9, 2018 14:10:00 GMT
Girls can do what they want. Why can’t boys do what they want? |
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Post by Repat Van on Apr 9, 2018 14:11:07 GMT
GNP = FFK.
Mids is in favour of NGNP (I.e. enforced gender roles)
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moggyonspeed
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"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
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Post by moggyonspeed on Apr 9, 2018 14:19:30 GMT
Girls can do what they want. Why can’t boys do what they want? Why can't parents do what THEY want? |
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mids
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Post by mids on Apr 9, 2018 14:22:29 GMT
Girls can do what they want. Why can’t boys do what they want? Ask Andy, I was responding to his question. |
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moggyonspeed
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"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
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Post by moggyonspeed on Apr 9, 2018 14:27:37 GMT
Yes, but I was replying to van's answer to you. To clarify my opinion: -
- Gender-neutral parenting is fine for those parents wishing to engage in it;
- Ditto gender-specific parenting.
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mids
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Post by mids on Apr 9, 2018 14:33:27 GMT
Eh? Was that to me?
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moggyonspeed
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"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
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Post by moggyonspeed on Apr 9, 2018 14:54:53 GMT
Kinda. Perhaps I've got it wrong, but I didn't think my opinion on this matter would be that contentious.
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mids
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Post by mids on Apr 9, 2018 15:05:33 GMT
Well gender neutral parenting, if it genuinely was that, would be fine but it isn't so it isn't. It's mostly about middle class Guardian readers seeking attention for themselves by being poor parents.
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Apr 9, 2018 15:26:26 GMT
Do you think girls shouldn't be allowed to play with technical lego, and should only watch Disney Princess movies and not Transformers cartoons? My daughter never showed any interest in Lego of any sort, there was plenty available since she has two elder brothers. Should we have forced her to play with Lego? Did we fail her? |
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moggyonspeed
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"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
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Post by moggyonspeed on Apr 9, 2018 15:35:26 GMT
Well gender neutral parenting, if it genuinely was that, would be fine but it isn't so it isn't. It's mostly about middle class Guardian readers seeking attention for themselves by being poor parents. But that is their choice as parents and, as long as we are all held accountable for our choices (short-, medium- and long-term), then so be it. Because they wish to exercise choice in gender-neutral parenting does not make them, ipso facto, bad parents. |
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moggyonspeed
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"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
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Post by moggyonspeed on Apr 9, 2018 15:43:30 GMT
Do you think girls shouldn't be allowed to play with technical lego, and should only watch Disney Princess movies and not Transformers cartoons? My daughter never showed any interest in Lego of any sort, there was plenty available since she has two elder brothers. Should we have forced her to play with Lego? Did we fail her? Not at all. À propos a slightly different (but related) debate, and as that Jordan Peterson bod says, we should be aiming for equality of opportunity NOT equality of outcome. |
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Post by flatandy on Apr 9, 2018 15:51:50 GMT
That might be the only sensible thing Peterson has ever said.
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Post by flatandy on Apr 9, 2018 15:52:58 GMT
Well gender neutral parenting, if it genuinely was that, would be fine but it isn't so it isn't. It's mostly about middle class Guardian readers seeking attention for themselves by being poor parents. Ah! Good. So you're fine with gender neutral parenting. You just don't like bad parenting. It seems like there's not a whole lot of conflict here. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 16:05:00 GMT
Equality of opportunity - now there's a thing. Gender's just a tiny little piece of that paradox. How about class-neutral opportunity. Or religion-neutral opportunity. Or whether I fancy you or not-neutral opportunity. Or which tie you wear-neutral opportunity. Or I don't trust people who polish their shoes-neutral opportunity. Or liking Pink Floyd-neutral opportunity.
Ffs, I have two daughters who are opposite poles. Mrs Ootlg and her sister are opposites: her sister liked dolls and toy ovens, Mrs Ootlg liked to climb trees and do boy stuff. Aren't we all getting just a bit precious about how we conduct ourselves and what we think might be correct or not? I blame the media.
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voice
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Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
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Post by voice on Apr 9, 2018 16:45:08 GMT
I think certain blokes still cling to the idea that if their son expresses interest in playing with a kitchen set of a Barbie they will somehow be turned gay, its absurd, but there you go.
Both my boys had play kitchens at some point one liked Barbies for a while, both have chosen to wear pink shirts from time to time, both played with techno lego and played footy, I was never fussed what they chose to play with or wear for that matter as long as they were happy. Never did get why the mids and baloos of the world are so threatened by people not actively re-enforcing gender roles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 17:35:28 GMT
Thing is, as kids most of us are pretty much androgynous anyway - it's schooling that begins to define us; or confuse us. Parents aren't often the best guides and tutors unless they're relaxed about raising kids, and I'd hazard a guess that most f**k*d-up people are the result of f**k*d-up parenting.
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voice
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Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
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Post by voice on Apr 9, 2018 17:49:19 GMT
no argument there, you can imagine the uptight parenting that produces people who think equality is discrimination or that strict adherence to gender stereotypes will make their little boys manly and butch and their daughters obedient housewife, and that this is the desired outcome of raising a child. I suspect these types are the ones who voted for Brexit and a return to the 1950's...
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