moggyonspeed
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"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
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Post by moggyonspeed on Sept 18, 2019 12:34:57 GMT
The judges are being viciously pro remain. Can't really see Democracy winning here. Like Brexit itself, the word democracy needs definition here, especially in the context of the 2016 referendum. A referendum is simple Direct Democracy, nothing more, which then rightly relies on our Representative Democracy to enact the result, both by triggering A50 and then ratifying any deal that elected Parliament deems necessary. Any Brexiteer (with their chosen meaning of Brexit) who thought that the plebiscite was going to result in our leaving the EU the day after the referendum (and there are some) clearly is as stupid as some of us thought. Overlay the Parliamentary nature of our democracy with the fact that we are Constitutional (albeit unwritten) and Unitary, and any educated person can see the path to leaving the EU on good terms always was fraught with difficulties; reason enough, perhaps, to stand and fight our position on EU Reform from the inside. Should Johnson lose the Supreme Court case, the Brexit camp has no right to rail against democracy, since the Court will have settled that true democracy relies on more than the Government merely acting at the will of the mob. Conversely, should Johnson win, I won't be happy about the result, but I will be happy that due process has been exercised and exhausted. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 18, 2019 12:41:04 GMT
The alleged success of the British economy has been achieved over 45 years of membership of the EU. Demanding that the EU cancel our membership in a no-deal exit has no rational explanation, except that Johnson, Mogg and co. see advantages in it for themselves, not the British people. Cack. You can't hold a consistent line. You want to piss on everything at the same time. |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 12:47:58 GMT
If you go to the tables they're very precise about what's going to happen by quarter in 2016. The Osborne Treasury Brexit report has been fetishised by Brexiters as if they were the only people who saw flaws in the Tory government's 'Project Fear'. There was, in fact, widespread scepticism and indifference. It is clear that the Treasury did a great deal of work in the run up to the EU Referendum which was directed towards making the Government’s case for Remain. Even allowing for the exceptionally highly politically charged atmosphere during the campaign, including the concern about too many “experts”, the public reaction to the Treasury’s analysis was unprecedentedly hostile. (Kerslake Review of the Treasury, commissioned by Labour shadow chancellor, John McDonnell) |
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 18, 2019 13:12:09 GMT
I wonder if they'll make some sort of halfway house decision.
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 18, 2019 13:14:14 GMT
If you go to the tables they're very precise about what's going to happen by quarter in 2016. The Osborne Treasury Brexit report has been fetishised by Brexiters as if they were the only people who saw flaws in the Tory government's 'Project Fear'. There was, in fact, widespread scepticism and indifference. It is clear that the Treasury did a great deal of work in the run up to the EU Referendum which was directed towards making the Government’s case for Remain. Even allowing for the exceptionally highly politically charged atmosphere during the campaign, including the concern about too many “experts”, the public reaction to the Treasury’s analysis was unprecedentedly hostile. (Kerslake Review of the Treasury, commissioned by Labour shadow chancellor, John McDonnell)You've got nowt else though. Nowt. Show me the alternative predictions about what would happen after a vote to leave. Let's see the ones you relied on. |
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Post by flatandy on Sept 18, 2019 13:36:52 GMT
But we were told that the economy would crash immediately following a vote to leave. Those were the remain predictions. Immediately following a vote to leave, not after leaving. Immediately following a vote to leave. Dawn etc. It did. If we hadn't voted to leave the economy would have been growing at 7% per annum with no inflation, with wage growth of 10-15% and zero unemployment. |
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Post by flatandy on Sept 18, 2019 13:40:04 GMT
I'm not sure what happens in the government loses the court case. Do they get fined by the government? Do they get thrown in prison? They certainly lied to the queen and almost certainly broke the law, but unless there are actual consequences for breaking the law it's hard to see what deterrent effect it will have. I suspect that there won't be punishment for this crime.
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 18, 2019 13:41:55 GMT
We were told massive recession, unemployment up by half a million and soaring inflation. The opposite of which happened. We were told Brexigeddon, dawn etc. Never happened. (All right, inflation had a brief and extremely mild upward blip) So, if you can't predict what will happen a few months into the future, why would anyone believe any of your other predictions? Remain got it hugely and massively wrong. So very very very wrong indeed.
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 13:43:57 GMT
Why would there be any? The long defunct Treasury report is only kept alive by Leavers who have made a fetish of it.
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 14:29:56 GMT
Panic-stricken Johnson scuttles out of Luxembourg after learning what a fine mess Svengali Cummings has got him into.
Boris Johnson’s nightmare in Luxembourg was more than just a public embarrassment delivered at the hands of the Grand Duchy’s Xavier Bettel.
According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK’s plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.
At that point, a befuddled Mr Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”
Another official describes the prime minister gradually “slumping” in his chair as the reality of the UK’s negotiating position and the limited time left to strike an agreement dawned on him. “He wasn’t used to hearing it”, added the official. (Financial Times)
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Post by flatandy on Sept 18, 2019 14:44:46 GMT
Another official describes the prime minister gradually “slumping” in his chair as the reality of the UK’s negotiating position and the limited time left to strike an agreement dawned on him. “He wasn’t used to hearing it”, added the official. (Financial Times) If this is true, it's astonishing. Has he not read anything at all in the last three years? Has he listened to nobody except Jacob Rees Mogg for three years? He's not heard anyone at all point out that the negotiating position is bollocks? What kind of Michael Jackson bubble has he been living in? |
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 18, 2019 15:04:48 GMT
Sums up remainers. "Much of the media, alongside many of our politicians, have become enthusiastic Juncker’s Little Helpers, doing their best to sabotage negotiations at home while heaping praise on European politicians. To committed Remain politicians, the EU can do no wrong. What they say is gospel, and any UK disagreement is heresy. This attitude betrays either a failure to understand the concept of give-and-take negotiation, or a conscious attempt to wreck Brexit talks (most probably, both). It was particularly unedifying to see so many of our politicians applauding the display in Luxembourg, an obvious attempt to humiliate the Prime Minister on the world stage, and the ensuing fallout. It is hard to come away with any other impression than many Remainers simply want this country to fail." www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/18/eus-leaders-trying-humiliate-britain-not-negotiate-us/ |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 15:14:37 GMT
This is all new to Johnson. Especially this miracle solution that has been sold to him by somebody very recently. He hasn't been involved in negotiations. It's only when the EU experts explain the details that he gets a glimpse of the full picture. During talks with Juncker and the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, the prime minister was shown in detail how allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock, known as sanitary and phytosanitary measures (SPS), would still fail to avoid checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/boris-johnson-surprised-by-level-of-irish-border-checks-brexit |
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mids
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Post by mids on Sept 18, 2019 15:16:44 GMT
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 15:23:42 GMT
There are no negotiations currently going on. Negotiations were concluded when the Withdrawal Agreement was completed. If a British government, preferably one with a sufficient majority to govern, can come up with an alternative Irish backstop acceptable to the EU, it can be put into the Political Declaration.
Since the UK is a member of the EU, it has to follow EU law on any agreement reached before it leaves. The Political Declaration is a framework for negotiations after Brexit has happened.
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 15:30:24 GMT
Flanders is not the EU. Nor is New Zealand.
Lisa Rombouts, from the Flemish Sign Language Centre, said a new edition of the dictionary would be published that would “clarify these matters”. ...
Last month, the sign language dictionary in New Zealand came under criticism for a series of portrayals of minority communities.
Along with the hook-nose gesture for the word Jew, one of the words for representing Chinese people involves tugging at the corner of the eye. Gay is represented by a hand-flop and Samoan by pressing down on your nose.
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 18, 2019 15:44:23 GMT
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 15:49:21 GMT
A Boris do-or-die Brexit will throw a spanner in the works. Key parts for the Ineos vehicle - including the body and chassis - will be built at a second factory in Portugal before being brought to Bridgend for assembly.
BMW will supply the engines, and engineering assistance will be provided by another German company, MBTech. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 18, 2019 16:35:14 GMT
A Boris do-or-die Brexit will throw a spanner in the works. Key parts for the Ineos vehicle - including the body and chassis - will be built at a second factory in Portugal before being brought to Bridgend for assembly.
BMW will supply the engines, and engineering assistance will be provided by another German company, MBTech. You do know that cars are made from components and sub assemblies, right? Probably not. Or is there another stupid point you are about to make to further emphasise your ignorance and lack of ability to take on facts? |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 18, 2019 16:59:57 GMT
And since the free movement of these parts depends on the UK being a member of the EU, the Boris-do-or-die-Brexit will kill off the car assembly plants in the UK.
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