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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 13:18:13 GMT
Yeah, but as long as the mother had agency over her bodily autonomy, that's fine. I expect that her daughter also has agency now. An adoption agency. Why on earth would the father give his daughter up for adoption? Where did you get that from? |
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 13:21:56 GMT
Serious question. Has anyone ever heard of a properly diagnosed cancer just going away with no treatment? Nope. I don’t think so. I know somebody who claims to have extended their expected life length by switching from to a raw food diet after diagnosis (she did die maybe about 10 years after I met her and she had cancer when I first met her) but I have no idea how long they had given her or how far developed it was when she was diagnosed. I assume it was very very very early stages. Most other cases (and really I only know two other cases) it was elderly people who refused treatment and just said it’s their time and they will deal with the worst when it happens. |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 15:44:29 GMT
Chemo offers a 50/50 chance of death/survival. The poor woman had a choice which she was brave enough to make. There's no blame, just sadness. sorry, but I'll have to correct you on this. From what I’ve read about her cancer, I can say with confidence that it was quite treatable for cure. It was mentioned it was stage 2a, upon diagnosis which tells me that it hadn’t gone to the lymph nodes under her arm yet or spread elsewhere. With a combination of surgery plus chemotherapy, she could have expected an 85+% chance of long term survival. With a mastectomy, she might not even have needed radiation therapy. Yes, surgery is nasty. I understand that. Even with reconstruction, it’s scary as hell. Chemotherapy is even worse. I get that, having seen more women than I can remember after they’ve undergone chemotherapy. The alternative, however, is near-certain death, particularly with triple negative breast cancer. Sometimes, with hormone-sensitive estrogen-receptor positive cancers, a woman can live a long time without treatment before her cancer progresses; this form of the disease can sometimes be pretty indolent. This rarely happens with triple negative breast cancer. As for all chemo being a 50/50 chance of survival or death, I can only assume you pulled this figure out of your arse as it have no coloration to reality. Yes she had a choice and she paid for it by an early and preventable death. There was zero chance he vegan diet and paying thousands for bullshit woo 'treatments' (sic) was going to cure or even prolong her life, her cancer developed along expected lines for untreated triple negative breast cancer, she might as well have saved her money and spent time with her daughter and family the outcome would have been the same as if she'd done nothing. |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 15:48:10 GMT
Serious question. Has anyone ever heard of a properly diagnosed cancer just going away with no treatment? Spontaneous remission does happen, but its pretty rear. A lot of anecdotes out there for miracle cures such as this poor woman fell foul of, but no real evidence to back them up, in fact there is a sad succession of stories such as this from people who fall foul of cancer quack fraudsters who scam for every penny they've got before they die. |
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mids
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Post by mids on Jun 6, 2019 16:01:15 GMT
Serious question. Has anyone ever heard of a properly diagnosed cancer just going away with no treatment? Spontaneous remission does happen, but its pretty rear. Just in colon cancer, then? |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 16:39:11 GMT
very good
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Post by perrykneeham on Jun 6, 2019 18:21:18 GMT
She did impose her quackery on her daughter. She's short one mother.
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 18:22:36 GMT
in deed she did, it's not only the mother who suffered in this case, not by any stretch of the imagination
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Post by perrykneeham on Jun 6, 2019 21:22:13 GMT
Yep. Van is an idiot. Bodily autonomy guaranteed. A bodily autonamist.
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 21:55:48 GMT
She did impose her quackery on her daughter. She's short one mother. But even if she had just said “I don’t want to go through chemo and lose a breast so decline treatment” the end result would have been the same but it probably would not have been considered newsworthy without the “crazy vegan” angle. As long as she is not blocking other people from receiving valid medical treatment then she is not imposing her quackery on anybody else. I am more concerned with parents blocking vaccines, transplants and other treatments for their children risking their lives as a result. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 21:57:07 GMT
in deed she did, it's not only the mother who suffered in this case, not by any stretch of the imagination That’s the case when anybody refuses treatment / opts to end their life though. This is only a story because she opted for unproven treatment. It’s sad for the father / daughter but what can you do? *shrugs* |
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 21:59:50 GMT
You do wonder how people feel for this though. And what the broader reaction was of those around her when she said she was shinning proven treatment for veggies.
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 22:56:51 GMT
She did impose her quackery on her daughter. She's short one mother. But even if she had just said “I don’t want to go through chemo and lose a breast so decline treatment” the end result would have been the same but it probably would not have been considered newsworthy without the “crazy vegan” angle. As long as she is not blocking other people from receiving valid medical treatment then she is not imposing her quackery on anybody else. I am more concerned with parents blocking vaccines, transplants and other treatments for their children risking their lives as a result. Well actually the result most probably would not have been the same, see my explanation regarding triple negative breast cancer above. |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 23:00:28 GMT
You do wonder how people feel for this though. And what the broader reaction was of those around her when she said she was shinning proven treatment for veggies. again her veganism was only a very small part of this, the media being so sh!t didn't go into all the details about her spending thousands on bogus treatment in Mexico, having wholly unnecessary and useless bone marrow taps, hyperbarric treatments, detox foot baths and no end of idiotic woo, basically doing a shed load of treatments (sic) that did diddly squat. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 23:32:34 GMT
But even if she had just said “I don’t want to go through chemo and lose a breast so decline treatment” the end result would have been the same but it probably would not have been considered newsworthy without the “crazy vegan” angle. As long as she is not blocking other people from receiving valid medical treatment then she is not imposing her quackery on anybody else. I am more concerned with parents blocking vaccines, transplants and other treatments for their children risking their lives as a result. Well actually the result most probably would not have been the same, see my explanation regarding triple negative breast cancer above. You don’t think she would have also died had she just said she was refusing treatment and happy to die? Eh? |
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 6, 2019 23:33:35 GMT
You do wonder how people feel for this though. And what the broader reaction was of those around her when she said she was shinning proven treatment for veggies. again her veganism was only a very small part of this, the media being so sh!t didn't go into all the details about her spending thousands on bogus treatment in Mexico, having wholly unnecessary and useless bone marrow taps, hyperbarric treatments, detox foot baths and no end of idiotic woo, basically doing a shed load of treatments (sic) that did diddly squat. I mean all that “woo” is why it’s newsworthy. If it was just “person doesn’t want to go through chemo and a mastectomy so declined treatment it wouldn’t be a story. |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 6, 2019 23:49:32 GMT
Well funny you should say that, but it was first reported a few years ago as a public interest story saying essentially that 'person doesn’t want to go through chemo and a mastectomy so declined treatment and went on vegan diet instead'
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 7, 2019 0:01:46 GMT
Well funny you should say that, but it was first reported a few years ago as a public interest story saying essentially that 'person doesn’t want to go through chemo and a mastectomy so declined treatment and went on vegan diet instead' Yes that’s my point. The story was that she went for woo options (vegan diet +). If it was just, I don’t want treatment - the end. It wouldn’t really be a story for the news. And in this instance I think it’s better she contained her quackery to herself when typically you read about people imposing it on others by blocking their access to treatment. It’s silly people would risk death over options that are proven to save lives but if they will do that I prefer they make that choice just for themself. |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jun 7, 2019 3:51:28 GMT
Well actually the result most probably would not have been the same, see my explanation regarding triple negative breast cancer above. You don’t think she would have also died had she just said she was refusing treatment and happy to die? Eh? Well no, if she had been refusing treatment knowing she would die that's a different thing entirely, she was trying many different wood, telling all and sundry she was fighting her cancer and beloved utterly her crank doctors, if they can even be called that, were saving her. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jun 7, 2019 5:47:57 GMT
I think you've misunderstood me.
I am saying this is only newsworthy because of her pursuit of woo to try and fight cancer.
If she had turned down medical treatment, but not chased after alternative treatments, the end result would be exactly the same as the end result now (she would be dead) except it wouldn't be considered a news story.
And separate to that as long as she restricts her woo chasing to herself (thus only risking her own life) I don't particularly care.
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