Coronavirus

[mids]

I'm not an expert so I have tended to go with the prevailing theory but there was some suspicious activity around the speed with which the LLT was dismissed. Even suppressed. Part of it was Trump Derangement Syndrome and part fear of upsetting China/Chinese money. Also worth remembering the number of recent viruses that have come via animals so part of it was and still is, "as a viriiolologist, I think the evidence points to animal origins". It's probably also a bit significant that this latest report has emerged just as the pendulum was swinging towards LL.

[voice]

Suppressed, by who exactly, cos if you think it was supressed then who ever you thought was supressing it did a godawful job cos its been proud and prod among a certain type for ages.

The reason it was dismissed so readily was in part who was pushing it and why, the ones pushing it had no evidence to support them and as Fandy said the crap there were coming out with about the lab was, and continues to be, utterly absurd for the most part and just your basic conspiracy BS. In many ways the fact the loons were the ones glomming onto the lab leak thing actually made it harder for it to be taken seriously.

Also the pendulum is not swinging either way really, there is still no concrete evidence for the lab leak theory, probably can't ever be really, while the genetic profiling has always pointed much more to wild transmission from animal to human, this is just the latest set of data firming up on previous research.

[mids]

The Social Media Giants.

[voice]

The Price of Fish in Moldova

[mids]

For the Truth, go to the Mail.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629057/Twitter-REFUSES-say-censor-Coronavirus-lab-leak-theory.html

[voice]

hillarious.

As I said most of the lab stuff was boiler plate conspiratorial nonsense pushed by numerous far right loons, no wonder you lean so heavily in that direction. The loons muddied the waters and made serious consideration of a lab leak much harder to investigate.

[mids]

Hahaha, brilliant. Trump Derangement Syndrome is your fault!

[mids]

A bad boy made me do it!

[voice]

In you case TDS probably does explain you favoring the stuff your fellow loons have been pushing about bio weapons gain of function Fauci being in on it, all part of Bill Gates depopulation plan and numerous other conspiracies related to the lab in Wuhan, soft thinkers are easier manipulated and you have a long history of believing the most absurd nonsense just because you perceive it being from your team on the far right.

You a classic example of a non thinking follower.

[ootlg]

So we all agree we don't know and that anyone who thinks they know is an idiot. Good.

[flatandy]

We all agree that we don't know.

The things we do know are

(a) almost all novel viruses in humans developed in animals and jumped to humans, and that the packed unhygienic conditions animals are kept in makes virus development easier, and that there were dodgy meat markets in Wuhan and it was close to these that the first Covid cases showed up.

(b) the Wuhan institute of virology is also close to this location and is the first "Biological Safety Level 4" lab in mainland China. I think we know, or at least widely believe, they were doing research on coronaviruses. Because you obvious would if you were where MERS and SARS started from and you were a virlogy lab.

(c) if they were making a weapon they were complete morons who did it incredibly badly.

[mids]

I don't think anyone is suggesting they were making a weapon apart from WEF loons and there are only about 8 of them in existence. The main gripe is the early pivot to anti LLT after a week of the covid and then the utter refusal to countenance anything other than an infected tiger civet bat being the origin.

[voice]

That's simply untethered from reality.

While a lab leak can never be ruled out, early genetic sequencing strongly indicated wild Corona transmission, this latest data just lends that early reported finding more weight. There has never been any actual data suggesting this virus was from a lab, only the lab existing in Wuhan makes it something you can never rule out. Unless you think the data was faked or something equally unhinged (a strong possibility given what else you apparently belive)

[flatandy]

Why do you think there was a pivot. The initial premise was "it's mostly likely similar to the development of other similar virii". Which seems like a sound place to start and where you'd want some relatively substantive evidence before you'd really shift your thinking.

Most of the pushback against LLT was pushback against "deliberate release of bioweapons made by Anthony Fauci and the Chinese together in order to kill god-fearing white christian Americans and lock everyone in their homes so they could bring in a New World Order" craziness.

[mids]

Nobody mentioned a deliberate release of bioweapons. Maybe 3 people at most did. There was definitely a pivot in that various theories were discussed quite openly for a few weeks and then suddenly there was that Nature paper poo-pooing the LLT. After that, the establishment line was that the LLT was the province of loons. Now, there's been a welcome reassessment and science rather than politics is thankfully in the driving seat.

[mids]

To add, we'll probably never know without full cooperation of the Chinese which seems unlikely.

[voice]

Yes we will never know for sure, but data and evidence point strongly to wild covid, while only the fact the lab exists points to the lab.

Though you will no doubt remain intellectually dishonest and keep trying to pretend all the lab leak conspiracy nonsense was from a maar handful of people, you've abandoned any pretense you care about evidence and will continue to lean towards lab leak cos the rest of your tribe does so.

I'll say one thing, should evidence start to lean towards the lab, or evidence disproving the sequencing suggesting wild covid is shown to faulty, I'd change on a dime, something you appear unable to do.

[mids]

Yeah but you're a commie so you go along with whatever the CCP tells you. Rysenkoism.

[ootlg]

"On February 2, for instance, the scientists and health officials sent a series of emails explaining their views on the virus’s features and its possible origin. The possibility that the virus emerged from a lab release was top of mind for some of the scientists. In one email to Fauci, Collins, and another NIH official, Farrar wrote, “On a spectrum if 0 is nature and 100 is release—I am honestly at 50!”

Farrar then summarized the perspectives of several other scientists, including Michael Farzan, of UF Scripps Institute. Farzan, Farrar wrote, was particularly puzzled by the presence in the virus’s genome of a furin cleavage site, which is a feature that has not been found in other SARS-related coronaviruses. The furin cleavage site plays an important role in helping the virus infect human airway cells. Farzan was “bothered by the furin site and has a hard time explaining that as an event outside the lab (though, there are possible ways in nature, but highly unlikely).” On the question of whether the virus had a natural origin or came from some sort of accidental lab release, Farrar reported that Farzan was “70:30” or “60:40” in favor of an “accidental-release” explanation and that “Bob” — an apparent reference to Robert Garry — was also surprised by the presence of a furin cleavage site in this virus. Farrar quoted Bob saying: “I just can’t figure out how this gets accomplished in nature. … it’s stunning.”"

Quite a balanced article.

[perrykneeham]

One way or another, the Chinese are to blame. Either through scientific incompetence or squalid indifference to animal welfare.