How will history rank Bush?

[ricklinc]

A lot depends on the bias of the historian. Current affairs seem to slant a bit liberal at the moment so I'm sick of hearing about how great Clinton was. Wasn't he the prat who fluffied up the American intelligence services so that they wouldn't deal with the sort of nasty person who might have known about 9/11 coming? Didn't he have something to do with encouraging Americans to borrow money they couldn't repay to fullfil his ideal about home ownership and so must share some of the blame for this recession thing? And didn't he launch some bombing to distract the media from the contents of his secretary's mouth? I'd rank Clinton as only a little bit better than Blair who was only a little bit better than Brown who surely ranks somewhere in the Beppo The Clown category.

[reverend]

I didnt think Bush was that bad, top 20 for sure, his biggest blunder from my perspective was his response to Katrina, Im not really bothered if a politico talks well , its has he got the balls to make the serious decisions that matters to me, thats why I rated Blair too, even though I couldnt stand him as aperson!

[avon]

reverend , is that the same blair that took the U.K. to war on a lie ?

[reverend]

thats the one, the one who also took us into Kosovo to end a genocide when noone else would act!

[auldhippy]

History will view Bush as rank

[Charles Martel]

Jan 21, 2009 12:49:21 GMT reverend said:

I didnt think Bush was that bad, top 20 for sure, his biggest blunder from my perspective was his response to Katrina, Im not really bothered if a politico talks well , its has he got the balls to make the serious decisions that matters to me, thats why I rated Blair too, even though I couldnt stand him as aperson!

I don't think you can really compare Bush vs Blair though. They had very similar positions in the war on terror, but domestically, they are also very different, and it's too easy to recall their foreign policy agreements while forgetting how they each ran their countries away from international cameras.

Bush basically screwed up anything he touched. Admittedly, a lot of bad luck went his way (in the same manner Jimmy Carter didn't have much luck either), but Bush certainly didn't help his situation. When you consider that under Bush, (i) not one budget was close to balanced (owing to their intransigence on tax policy) despite years of relatively robust economy (growth, unemployment and inflation indicators weren't too bad for most of his tenure), (ii) the response to Katrina was botched, (iii) people were promoted because of their ties to the administration members and not because of their merit, (iv) companies with ties to the administration were awarded no-bid contracts for the reconstruction in Iraq (and subsequently failing to do their job), (v) the enormous government waste which arose due to iii & iv, (vi) the failure to move forward with energy policy (despite assurances he will move America towards renewables), (vii) the failure to fix the electoral system even after the debacle in 2000, (viii) the Scooter Libby scandal, (ix) the torture scandals, and too many other things to name. There is evidence that had they paid closer attention to CIA warnings, it is possible (though not guaranteed) that 9/11 might have been averted; just as if they paid closer attention to warnings about Katrina, the effects may not have been as disastrous, just as if they paid closer attention to warnings about post-war Iraq, the situation may have turned out differently. You have event after event that demonstrated the incompetence and general unpreparedness of the administration. Much has been written about the "White House Bubble" (see Scott McClellan's book): how Bush administration people insulated themselves against sound advice, the way they employed spin and manipulated facts to a greater extent than any administration before them, the way they collectively lived in a self-propagating delusion, and the ultimate disaster of the "permanent campaign era." While ardent Bush critics (who never gave him a chance and were insulting from the very start) share some of the blame for the deeply polarised environment we live in, the way Bush governed (completely ignoring the wishes of half the electorate) helped fueled the division in a way far-leftists by themselves never could. And that is despite the golden opportunity he had after 9/11 to cement unity and end the era of obsessive. unhealthy partisanship.

Maybe it will take generations of historians to analyse what went wrong after the tide has calmed and we can look at Bush objectively, with the benefit of hindsight (and much will depend on how much success Obama has operating in a similar environment in the next year or two). But it's hard to name major policy achievements to offset the long litany of failures.

Bush left the country in a much worse shape economically, domestically and internationally than he found it, where in certain areas it may take decades to undo the damage. I strongly think anything that Blair did was quite pale by comparison.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

I have to ask. Is "Blessed be the US Army and the IDF." just there to wind up certain posters or are you really barking mad?

[Charles Martel]

Jan 21, 2009 17:49:47 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

I have to ask. Is "Blessed be the US Army and the IDF." just there to wind up certain posters or are you really barking mad?

The armed forces of America, Europe, India and Israel are the guarantor of our collective freedom against the scourge of Islam. If there is anything much (much!) worse than Bush - something I'd be much less willing to subject anyone to, it is ISLAM. There is no other current philosophy more barbaric, more intolerant, more obstructive to progress, more hostile to human freedom and dignity than Islam. So blessed be those who oppose it.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

I would say that suggesting the IDF and US forces are anti-Islam is pretty insane. Most of us tend to think people who call the War Against Terror a war on Islam are hilariously mad, or Bertrus.

Apart from anything else you don't even believe in God!

[flatandy]

I think lumping the US armed forces in with the deeply dubious Indian and Israeli ones is quite insulting to the brace US military.

[flatandy]

Meanwhile, I think in Bush's favour, as mentioned elsewhere, is his long push on trying to support stable regimes in Africa, to increase aid to Africa, and to work on reducing malaria and HIV.

The Republican spinners (and I agree with PK on the era of permanent spin deeply damaging US politics - an irony because it was as much perpetrated by the cheerleaders for Bush on Fox and in the newspapers and blog-land as it was by Cheney and co) are trying to present the "lack of another attack on US soil" as the great achievement of the Bush era. Which is a bit wet seeing as Bush I, Reagan, Carter and Clinton, to start with, didn't have an attack on US soil.

The real legacy achievement may well be seen in Africa. Obama looks likely to continue with that agenda, so there will have been a fairly concerted push for 16 years by the end of Barry's second term. Something which may actually be enough to see genuine change.

You can already see, despite the petty corruption and so on, a fairly stable southern African block (excluding Zim). SA, Zambia, Mozambique, Angola, Malawi, Botswana and Tanzania are all relatively stable and growing economies. Rwanda and Uganda are getting there - although Kagame needs to get a kicking from the international community for continuing to screw over the DRC. It could be that by the end of the next decade Southern Africa, at least, will seem like South America or South-East Asia do now. New powerhouses that not long ago were revolutionary hellholes full of civil war.

Bush may not get the credit he deserves for this, because he never presented his case strongly, because there are myriad other influences on this, and because he screwed so many other things up.

Ironic, given that him and his cheerleaders have obsessed and blown cash in insane degree on the middle east and homeland security.

But, too, worth noting that the one place there wasn't fanfare and obsession, where there was just gentle, quiet work, is the place with the best results. The high profile stuff - look at us cutting regulation for Enron, look at these wonderful tax cuts for the rich, look at our fantastic war on terror, look at our concerted deregulation of the banking sector allowing savings banks to become investment banks and get involved in stupid highly leveraged deals - is the stuff that's been utterly disastrous.

[Scooby Do]

Jan 20, 2009 19:03:15 GMT @oneofthelessergods said:

You pregnant dog, Martel

Steady on there ootlg, we are in the company of the greatness.




CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Charles Martel

[Scooby Do]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Charles MartelFrench monarch, born about 688; died at Quierzy on the Oise, 21 October, 741.

[lawrence]

Charles Martel stopped the Muslim advance into Europe in one of the most important battles of all time. If not for him we'd all be fondling camels , beating the crap out of the sack our wives are hiding in and looking for some prepubescent girls to party with tonight. Thank you Charles. Islam blows.

BTW Cutlery , the first attack on the world trade center occurred in 1993 during Clintons tenure as well as the mysterious downing of flight 800 off Long Island. The rags didn't really try to bring their hobby here till the 90's so the earlier presidents don't count.

[Charles Martel]

Cutlery master, what was your old nick?

[Amazed]

Check his profile!

[Charles Martel]

Jan 21, 2009 19:58:55 GMT Amazed said:

Check his profile!

I already did.

Oh wait....I get it, you have to look at the URL instead, not the profile..... Duh!

[Amazed]

Nope, I meant profile.

[Amazed]

But oh yes, the URL tells it, too.

[Brittles]

[quote author=charles martel board=news thread=326 post=6953 time=1232560509

The armed forces of America, Europe, India and Israel are the guarantor of our collective freedom against the scourge of Islam. If there is anything much (much!) worse than Bush - something I'd be much less willing to subject anyone to, it is ISLAM. There is no other current philosophy more barbaric, more intolerant, more obstructive to progress, more hostile to human freedom and dignity than Islam. So blessed be those who oppose it.[/quote]

The United States is more than happy to sell weapons, all sorts of deadly ordnance, tanks and planes to the mentally retarded jew hating medieval Saudis and the marginally less barbaric Gulf states (including the weirdos of Kuwait who also hate the jews) so you could also add;

"blessed be those who arm the followers of Islam"

You can't have it both ways "Doctor"