Buying a car? Avoid this lot! Help.

[sushimo]

Carcraft. Biggest load of thieving gits going.

Got a Grandson, 18 years old, nice lad, passed his test 1st time about as quick as you can do after reaching driving age. Has a nice girlfriend, a Uni student (he's an apprentice mechanical engineer). Needed to get a decent car after running about in a very old, decrepit nissan for a year getting a NCD. Went to the above morons in the North East looking to upgrade to something a bit better, and saw a decent enough Renault Scenic 03 plates, £4,400. Kanew it was out of their limit to buy, but asked them about finance to buy it, using PX on the Nissan, yep, no worries, they would do that dead easy for them, and verbally they were told the repayments would be in total about £5,000.

The first payment came out of the bank, and they were horrified at how much it was, way more than they were advised, so they decided to recheck out their contract with parents. When they checked it out, it came to light that they would be paying back over £9,000. They went to the CAB who said they had received a few complaints about this lot, but this was one of the worst cases they had seen, and viscious being done to two kids who basically had no clue. (Yes, they have been bawled out for going it alone).

The CAB have notified the Tradings Standards, but right now, we have no clue of what to do next? I could bail them out of this financially, or they could just hand the car back, but can they just stop the payments? Will they get a penalty clause (legally) for opting out? There is no way these kids can afford the payments being taken, sure, they have been stupid not checking the contracts, but my GS told me the guy just pressed him to sign as he had someone waiting on the phone!

This is bad, but they also sent him out on the road in a car (when they bought it) without a tax disc, saying they would be OK for a week without one! Tell that to clampers!

Any advice - anyone?

[feral]

Good grief !Doesn't anybody teach kids to read contracts before signing them these days .

I'd be inclined to just stop payments and wait for the buggers to come claim the car back .
Lol ..I have no idea about the law..I suppose it depends what's written in the contract

[jimboky]

I always told my daughter, and everyone else who'd listen to ALWAYS get the car loan before you buy the car and from a bank.

The car dealers here will almost always try to add "fees" after the deal is done. never go for them

[sushimo]

I know, he had been told to never, ever do anything like this without a competant adult with him. Problem is he had just fallen out with his Dad over treating him like a child, so decided he would 'act' adult. He knows it was insane, but the bluddy dealers (this one especially) is notorious for being a con.

There is no way that they can pay this money back on the income he has - she is just on a Uni grant - and they put the contract into her name, and the car in his - how?

[jimboky]

The reason we adults know this stuff is most of us have been stung by this sort of thing and we know now better how to avoid this, we however did manage to surive them, and I suspect your grandson will surive as well, a little poorer and a little wiser.

[kubik8]

" I could bail them out of this financially"

While there are a few ways of tackling this issue, if you can pay the debt, that's probably the easiest course. Approach the company and explain the debt cannot be paid under the accepted terms, and negotiate a lump sum setttlement. Then work out repayment to yourself from idiot grandson (no offence, we're all idiots at that age).

There are legal precedents for cancelling the contract, especially if it's clear he couldn't afford the repayments. But it's complicated and there are limits on the length of time between agreement and complaint.

What 18yo buys a Renault Scenic anyway? They're for mature couples with kids, like me!

£4,400 on an 03 plate sounds pretty good. If he wants to sell, I might be interested. Then he can pay off irate grandmother hehe

No reason the car can't be his with the contract in her name. MrsK could buy me a car and the finance be in her name...

[kubik8]

Don't let him just stop payments though. That will lead to a world of trouble, and they're too young to be saddled with that crap.

[yord]

awwwwww thats what kids are for and its a great lesson . His dad is right and should tell the daft git to get himself a second job

[sushimo]

Just getting a lot more info on this now, and as Trading Standards are saying, "It's the worst case they have seen", and they admit to having seen loads on this bunch.

Do a Google on Carcraft - reviews, it's packed with complaints about them, they have even tried to have some websites closed that have accounts in there of treatment meted out.

Handing the car back to them is not viable, others that have tried this have been called and told their cars were found on the forecourt burnt out, and that they still have to pay for it. They also have written into contract that "you have no right to cancel the agreement".

I am so gunning for them, they spent 4 hours on this pair. Although the kids did try to phone home, and were told to wait until tomorrow by working parents, this lot kept hold until they signed - the pressure they had was disgusting.

£4400 car, less £100 px. Total cost: £9436 - on a Uni student with no income, just a loan for a grant! (It was the g/f they insisted had to take out the loan, and they even followed her home at 9pm to ensure she lived at the address given).

[feral]

What's a uni student with no income just a loan for a grant doing buying a bloody car in the first place ?

[Woolf]

Surely following her home would count as stalking or harassment.

£100 p/x, you could get that much at some scrap yards if the car can be driven there.

[justmyopinion]

Calculate
Car price £5000.00
Amount of credit £3000.00
Interest payable £1000.00
Acceptance Fee £125.00
Discharge Fee £150.00
Total amount payable £8000.00
APR 19.90%

From the Carcraft site, £3000 finance costs £6000 over 5 years - credit card APR

[sushimo]

They will be paying back, in total, over £10k for a car costing £4,400, less px for trade in £200, and £389 paid down. About £3800 to over £10k is way too much.

Only got the contract off Carcraft last week (after asking repeatedly for it) where we found they have 'added' that she is working, and also discovered what the true repayment will be. The girls P60 for last year, for doing work experience has her earning £389, she has worked nothing yet this tax year.

However, Trading Standards in Rochdale, the Express Newspaper, and Panorama are gathing cases for an investigation into this bunch, so their case is added to it now.

[mrbond]

Carcraft - They are well known for this. They don't sell cars, they sell finance to people who can't afford it.

A scenic? got kids? thats a terrible choice of car for a young couple and a quick look on auto trader says you can pick one up 03 plate for well under £3k (probably £2k if you haggle)
search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/RENAULT+SCENIC/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-10-24-240-4294966951-4294967236/advert.action?R=200918333287232&distance=38&postcode=gu47+8dx&channel=CARS&make=RENAULT&model=SCENIC&min_pr=2000&max_pr=10000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2003&vehicleRegLetter=03

Looks like some dodgy dealing on the ownership and finance as well, I think you have a few get outs there.

[kubik8]

Erm, you realise the vehicle you linked to was a cat c write-off?

Meaning the value is poor as most buyers won't touch it. Not surprising as the repair work was likely done on the cheap (cat c = repair more than the vehicle is worth), and many insurers will charge a premium, if they'll insure at all.

[mrbond]

Ooops.

Sorry missed that bit. I managed to pick the only Cat C.

10 more here between £2k - £3k and all 2004 or better.

search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/RENAULT+SCENIC/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-10-14-144-240-4294966951-4294967236/search.action?showMoreOptions=&formSearchParams=Ne%3D2%2B4%2B5%2B6%2B7%2B8%2B27%2B44%2B49%2B53%2B61%2B64%2B67%2B103%2B133%2B146%2B236%26N%3D10%2B14%2B144%2B240%2B4294966951%2B4294967236&sort=p_VehiclePrice&make=RENAULT&model=SCENIC&min_pr=2000&max_pr=3000&max_mileage=&lc_channel=cars&dealerGroupId=&dealerId=&radius=100&postcode=gu47+8dx&e_source=&e_colour=&e_enginecc=&e_bodystyle=&e_mileage=&e_fuel=&e_transmission=&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=78&ukcarsearch_full.y=13

[kubik8]

Hmm there's a couple there that look pretty good (I'm only really following this thread because MrsK wants a Scenic or similar).

You still got that old Porsche, Mr Bond? Or have I confused you with someone else.

[sushimo]

They are brilliant cars (my daughter has one too), the kids wanted one as they go camping a lot, takes all the gear, and if it's peeing down the back makes a good bed, the tent stores the gear!

I love them, you can remove seats, make them face the back, and the number of cubby holes in the thing defies belief.

Thanks for the input anyways guys, it's all taken onboard. Just don't go to Carcraft for one, a Renault dealer could be your safest bet.

[mrbond]

Yes, that was me.

I sold it as it wasn't doing the miles and spent most of the time in the garage. So I decided to get a more modern one I could use every day. Got a Cayman and it's a terrific car, nearly 3 years old now so it's actually going and being replaced by another old one.

It's slower, handles worse and will cost more to maintain but it's just more interesting and exciting. The Cayman was so good it was bland.

I've see several I like, one on Sunday in Blue 911T Targa 1970, a Silver 911S (1967), a yellow targa (again) and tomorrow an Orange 912 - 1969 ( this is the one I hope). I'll post up some pictures when I get it.

[dt]

The contract was formed at the point of the verbal agreement for the 5K. Additional terms and conditions cannot be added to an existing contract without "consideration".
Therefore I would be inclined to pay just the agreed price of 5K and let them sue you for the rest (If they are stupid enough). They have no cause of action anyway for the remaining 4K odd because a "misrepresentation" which is what you have here makes the contract voidable.......whether written or verbal does not matter.