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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 0:26:55 GMT
A simple yes/no referendum is not a sane way to decide a very complex question that many people know nothing much about and what they do know is absurdly wrong (thanks to the populist press). Most people can decide as to whether or not they wish to be part of a political entity. |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Jul 19, 2016 0:29:29 GMT
You are insignificant.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 0:34:20 GMT
As are you. The referendum has been held. People voted. Most voted out. Deal with it. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 1:02:05 GMT
It's not spineless, it's sensible. It would be the best thing for Britain, and for the EU, for us to remain. And the second best thing would be for us to rejoin as soon as we possibly could if we do exit. But it's not going to happen. I am increasingly convinced that all this "non-binding" stuff and all the desperate pleas calling for another referendum on exit conditions are wishful thinking. It's also what I wish. But it's not gonna happen. Britain's leaving the EU, and by the looks of it, most likely leaving the single market. It's disastrous, particularly with Boris and Davis guiding us there, but it will almost certainly happen. I'd put the odds now at about 90% or so for us actually leaving, and 60% or so for us leaving the Single Market. Nah it's spineless. What if those terms included joining the Euro and Schengen? You'd say - "ok!" Schengen I'd say "Yes please". We should have been in for the last decade. The Euro I'd try and get out of (for what it's worth, joining the Euro is one of those cases where I am happy I was proven wrong, although the Euro would probably have been absolutely fine if it was implemented as a proper financial project rather than shoehorning countries in that didn't fit for political reasons). But I'd take the downsides of the Euro as a trade for all the other upsides, yes. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 1:04:43 GMT
The ones who genuinely are contemptuous of people with different opinions (I.e you) are the liberal elite I am referring to. The Guardianista classes. That's deeply unfair. I'm only really contemptuous of those who have different opinions to me when those opinions are completely moronic. |
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voice
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Post by voice on Jul 19, 2016 1:13:09 GMT
they were out of the UK for more than 15 years, I thought that was implicit in my posts, but then again knowing you are reading these threads I should have spelled it out very clearly and simply for you to grasp. You just said they were ex-pats and so couldn't vote. You should learn to write properly. How odd even for you, though i suspect the irony of your post is just not apparent to you. No where did i say as an ex pat were they not allowed to vote, rather that Dave changed the ex pat voter laws to disenfrabchise then, again it was implicit but I know struggle with that. |
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Post by clarity on Jul 19, 2016 1:31:54 GMT
Voice, I don't understand why your parents would want to vote unless they are planning on returning to live the UK/EU anyway? As for their pension that's the gamble you take when it's paid in pounds to oversees accounts. Surely it fluctuated anyway depending on the exchange rate? Plus you don't get a yearly increase in your UK pension if you live in Canada. Which doesn't seem fair but there you are. www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pensionYour parents might qualify for the GIS from Canada, basically it tops up low income retirees. I closed down all my accounts in the UK last week and transferred the money here. Seemed pointless keeping them there now. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 1:52:29 GMT
You just said they were ex-pats and so couldn't vote. You should learn to write properly. How odd even for you, though i suspect the irony of your post is just not apparent to you. No where did i say as an ex pat were they not allowed to vote, rather that Dave changed the ex pat voter laws to disenfrabchise then, again it was implicit but I know struggle with that. There is no irony, just you failing to write properly. This is exactly what you wrote: they didn't have that choice themselves since Dumb Dave took away voting rights for ex-pats.Plenty of ex-pats voted (including me.) People not allowed to vote were those deemed to no longer have a connection to the country. 15 years being a fair amount of time. As I said, learn to write properly. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 1:55:37 GMT
The ones who genuinely are contemptuous of people with different opinions (I.e you) are the liberal elite I am referring to. The Guardianista classes. That's deeply unfair. I'm only really contemptuous of those who have different opinions to me when those opinions are completely moronic. Yeah but when it comes to the LE (which includes you), ALL opinions different to the ones you hold are completely moronic... |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 1:57:22 GMT
Nah it's spineless. What if those terms included joining the Euro and Schengen? You'd say - "ok!" Schengen I'd say "Yes please". We should have been in for the last decade. The Euro I'd try and get out of (for what it's worth, joining the Euro is one of those cases where I am happy I was proven wrong, although the Euro would probably have been absolutely fine if it was implemented as a proper financial project rather than shoehorning countries in that didn't fit for political reasons). But I'd take the downsides of the Euro as a trade for all the other upsides, yes. Why "yes" to Schengen? I'm comfortable that even the EU wouldn't be stupid enough to try and force the Euro on the UK. Especially when we witness what a basket case it's been. Well they may try and force it one day, but by then I'll pretty much be cut off from the country so can watch the car crash from afar. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 3:03:45 GMT
Yeah but when it comes to the LE (which includes you), ALL opinions different to the ones you hold are completely moronic... Not at all. Just the moronic ones are. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 19, 2016 3:06:04 GMT
Because it makes life massively easier for people travelling, and does no harm. So, you know, why not? |
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voice
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Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
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Post by voice on Jul 19, 2016 4:44:18 GMT
How odd even for you, though i suspect the irony of your post is just not apparent to you. No where did i say as an ex pat were they not allowed to vote, rather that Dave changed the ex pat voter laws to disenfrabchise then, again it was implicit but I know struggle with that. There is no irony, just you failing to write properly. This is exactly what you wrote: they didn't have that choice themselves since Dumb Dave took away voting rights for ex-pats.Plenty of ex-pats voted (including me.) People not allowed to vote were those deemed to no longer have a connection to the country. 15 years being a fair amount of time. As I said, learn to write properly. Yes ok van, what ever you say dear. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 5:25:22 GMT
Yeah - forgot to check what you wrote didn't you  |
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Jul 19, 2016 5:46:41 GMT
Just two out of five people aged 65 and over backed staying in. In contrast, 75% of voters aged 18 to 24 voted Remain. The vote was also regional, with Scotland, Northern Ireland and London in favour of Remain. www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/who-voted-brexit-how-eu-8277077Those who want to go back to the past when there were jobs in British coal mines, steel works and the British car industry and foreigners were an inconspicuous minority in most parts of the country, decided the result. The people who decided the result were the people who got their arse out of bed and voted. nb Where did you get your figures from Bert, somebody has been really busy going through the not very secret ballot papers? |
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Jul 19, 2016 5:50:06 GMT
But significant enough to outvote you it seems. |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Jul 19, 2016 9:35:40 GMT
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 19, 2016 10:31:38 GMT
Nothing xenophobic about border controls. Every country has them.
And it's true - while part of the EU you can't have complete control of your borders. It's a simple statement of fact.
I'm also confused why taking back control of one's country from foreign forces is bad when talking about Britain and the EU but good when talking about the UK's colonial past. Odd that.
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 19, 2016 11:30:19 GMT
Border controls are explicitly xenophobic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 12:06:01 GMT
Incidentally, Hermann Hauser tweeted the following on June 24th and 25th: "Brexit: Britain's worst own goal in history." and "An innumerate clown has wrecked a country." His opinion matters because...? Read all the posts and you'll know. Clue: British business booming, someone said. But in fact it was being sold off cheap to the Japs. |
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