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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 1, 2019 16:25:09 GMT
The Sun has learned that Mr Johnson is ready to propose a new bilateral deal between London and Dublin to act as a bridge until stand-off border checks - dubbed ‘alternative arrangements’ – are ready. Under the new idea, Ireland would win a special dispensation from Brussels to diverge from EU rules temporarily so it can stay aligned with the UK. In turn, the London government would agree a common rule book on goods and standards with Dublin while the temporary arrangement lasts. But the plan risks infuriating Irish politicians, who risked being accused of being dependent on Britain again, almost 100 years after Irish independence. LINKIt will be interesting to see how that plans out. I can't believe that, at this stage, this "proposal" hasn't been run past the Irish. Also, if it could be agreed between UK and ROI, it might provide a figleaf for Barnier to pretend that it wasn't special treatment. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 1, 2019 16:28:25 GMT
Ireland is a much richer country than the UK, especially than the Northern Ireland part, so I expect the UK isn't such an attraction these days. Oh, is it bollocks. That's silly stats abuse, like claiming spiders are stronger that bulls. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 1, 2019 16:42:34 GMT
"MPs who want to stop a no-deal Brexit will seek to bring forward legislation against it this week, shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer has said. He said the plan was to prevent the PM "from taking us out of the EU without a deal" but he did not go into detail. Cabinet minister Michael Gove refused to guarantee that the government would abide by it if it passed, saying: "Let's see what the legislation says." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49541942Kier Starmer's a bit of a bell-end, isn't he? He's nice looking, but he really doesn't have the sort of incisive intellect or instincts required. Compare to Govey: ugly little Jock, but very clever and a natural raptor. |
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Post by flatandy on Sept 1, 2019 20:18:24 GMT
Michael Gove refused to guarantee that the government would abide by [legislation passed by parliament]
There's been some hot air and bullshit from remainers this week over-selling what Boris has done in proroguing parliament. But, if government has decided to do what the f**k it wants regardless of what Parliament passes, that does seem to rather miss the entire point and concept of parliamentary democracy. I wonder how the Govester will react when the upcoming Corbyn government starts ignoring parliament and decides to nationalise the entire banking and finance sector.
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 2, 2019 5:18:14 GMT
It does rather look like parliamentary democracy is all or nothing. If they do manage to get the genie back in the bottle, it'll be a very long time before parliament lets Joe Public decide an issue again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 6:54:48 GMT
hahaha... you want a link to the future now? |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 2, 2019 7:25:35 GMT
No, just to reality.
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Post by Repat Van on Sept 2, 2019 7:31:50 GMT
It's just a question of what people are used to saying. You wouldn't call somebody from Aberdeen an immigrant to London. They're UK citizens. You might call somebody moving from France to England an immigrant. Probably not if it's a multi-millionaire footballer. But he's a European citizen anyway. It's just convention. Except when you want to track migration for statistical purposes. There are statistics about movements of people across the UK. It's needed for planning purposes. To estimate future trends for providing public services, for example. Because people moving within a nation are not immigrants. People moving between nations are. It’s really not that difficult. |
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Post by Repat Van on Sept 2, 2019 7:32:57 GMT
Realistically though what would be the point? Unless you mean from poorer EU nations? The point of what? My point was that the main issue for many of those voting Brexit was the potential to be able to control immigration to the UK. A borderless Ireland after Brexit would defeat this. So the UK would have to put up a border in defiance of the GFA - which equals a return to violence. Well not really. Controlled migration means the ability to control numbers moving legally. What you are talking about is illegal migration. |
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Post by whitewine on Sept 2, 2019 8:29:00 GMT
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 2, 2019 12:44:55 GMT
A nation is people, not a territory. The Scots are a nation, Scotland is the territory. Although Scotland is a separate country, there is freedom of movement because there is a Union between Scotland and England. The nations of the EU are in a Union and the people of these nations have freedom of movement. It's a legal right.
'Immigrant' is a word that can be used as a stigma. That's how the Brexit mind works because they are in denial of the fact that the UK is a member of the EU, just like all the rest. We don't call ourselves "immigrants" in another country, except in a semi-serious way. We're expats.
"Immigrants" in Brexiter vocabulary are undesirables, taking our jobs, and generally being a nuisance, or a regrettable necessity, like NHS workers. It's an expression of prejudice and discrimination, not a statement of fact.
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Post by flatandy on Sept 2, 2019 13:19:49 GMT
Because people moving within a nation are not immigrants. People moving between nations are. The distinction in reality is arbitrary, defined by arbitrary lines drawn on maps usually a couple of centuries ago. Someone from Dundalk moving 20km to Newry is an "immigrant", someone moving from Dover 700km to Newry is not. It's clearly arbitrary and silly to change the definition based on lines in the sand. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 15:28:10 GMT
Sorry, can't help you there. Try signing on. |
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Post by mids on Sept 2, 2019 15:33:36 GMT
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 2, 2019 16:43:03 GMT
I doubt if Irish people making that move would consider themselves "immigrants". Everybody in Northern Ireland, subject to conditions, has a right to Irish citizenship. But it's the law, and not just how you feel about it, that decides. If automatically, as a legal right, an EU citizen can live, work and study in another EU country, with very few restrictions, they are not on the same footing as foreigners who have to go through bureaucratic hoops and can be refused or receive only conditional, time-limited permission to be in the country.
Legal rights are not arbitrary. How people choose to regard their fellow European citizens depends on their attitude to the EU and if a few decades is long enough to get used to get used to the idea of being European. That might be called 'arbitrary'.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 16:48:04 GMT
Yes. He makes it quite clear that British 'sovereignty' exists even as a member of the EU. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 17:01:33 GMT
BREAKING: @borisjohnson will say If MPs vote tomorrow for another delay, then Wednesday there will be vote on general election. MPs gone, no 14 days, no legislation on extension. Election on 14 October. Government source: “who does country want to sort it out on 18 Oct at EU?”
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Post by flatandy on Sept 2, 2019 17:05:00 GMT
Corbyn has said that he won't vote for an election until after anti-No Deal legislation is passed. I hope he has the balls to hold that line.
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 2, 2019 17:06:08 GMT
BREAKING: @borisjohnson will say If MPs vote tomorrow for another delay, then Wednesday there will be vote on general election. MPs gone, no 14 days, no legislation on extension. Election on 14 October. Government source: “who does country want to sort it out on 18 Oct at EU?” Boris to address the nation. I'll give it a miss. I wouldn't be able to stand a very bad Churchill impression. |
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Post by flatandy on Sept 2, 2019 17:08:57 GMT
You didn't watch Gary Oldman in the Darkest Hours then?
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