bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 20, 2019 9:37:34 GMT
52% of the people is not the people. Definitely not when millions of resident EU citizens were not allowed to vote. Since EU citizenship was the main issue of the referendum, this was undemocratic.
In the case of a general election, non-British EU citizens have the vote in their country of origin. There was no such opportunity for the 2016 referendum. Non-British EU citizens were simply denied the vote.
The 2016 'British people' is not the 2019 British people. Many in the age group with the highest leave percentage have gone and many in the highest remain percentage are now eligible to vote.
Leave does not simply mean leave, in any case. There's a big difference between the Hulk Johnson smashing his face through the wall and crashing out and a civilized exit, with the door being held open and regrets all round.
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 20, 2019 10:03:52 GMT
"52% of the people is not the people."
It is the people as expressed in terms of a referendum. Grow up.
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 20, 2019 10:36:13 GMT
A second referendum would be the antidote to the first, especially with a democratic franchise,. The cure for the folly.
If referendums are going to be a regular thing, it's time the rules and regulations were written into the British constitution. A written British constitution is necessary, as the antics of Johnson make clear.
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 20, 2019 10:43:50 GMT
Guff.
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moggyonspeed
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Post by moggyonspeed on Sept 20, 2019 11:14:50 GMT
A second referendum would be the antidote to the first, especially with a democratic franchise,. The cure for the folly. If referendums are going to be a regular thing, it's time the rules and regulations were written into the British constitution. A written British constitution is necessary, as the antics of Johnson make clear. Two points: With any kind of referendum, the only way you can 100% guarantee the franchise is to adopt the Australian model and mandate compulsory voting. By all means add a "neither of the above" box and make the choices non-binary, but bear in mind that the more choices you have, the greater the likelihood that the largest minority will carry the day. Secondly, I disagree with the premise that referenda should be a regular thing. In a sense, referenda are little more than an admission that our representative democracy has failed on a key issue. In the Cameron sense he also fell into the trap of thinking that a referendum would lance the boil that is Europe within the Tory party - and the rest is history. |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 20, 2019 11:17:38 GMT
Johnson's personal dishonesty and generally bumbling and shifty character is a key part of the current Brexit mess. In Luxembourg, he has nothing coherent to say to other EU leaders. He scuttles away from a press conference, afraid to face public anger. In the Supreme Court he is described as a liar and compared to a dodgy estate agent.
The unwritten British constitution allows him to find dodges and tricks to defy the will of Parliament. It's time that loopholes were closed and the rules of the game are set out in black and white.
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moggyonspeed
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Post by moggyonspeed on Sept 20, 2019 11:23:53 GMT
All that is as maybe, but don't forget that these same loopholes will be open for others to use once BoJo is rightly put out to pasture. Of course, he may well object to others using the same ruses as he does because he (and his ilk) thinks he's something special - which, being demonstrably fallible, he isn't.
Be careful what you wish for as well; there's a distinct possibility that those loopholes are there for a reason.
Btw, you see loophole; I see elephant trap.
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Sept 20, 2019 11:37:38 GMT
Be careful what you wish for as well; there's a distinct possibility that those loopholes are there for a reason. It's not so much specific loopholes, but the extent to which British parliamentary procedure is based on tradition and on a degree of respect for fair play. When you get an unscrupulous liar, like Johnson in charge, the whole thing starts to fall apart. The prorogation issue, where Parliament has been shut down for five weeks to block opposition to Brexit is striking a potentially disastrous blow against democracy. Obviously, if Parliament had not been shut down, Johnson's opponents, the majority of MPs, could vote to continue parliamentary business during the conference season. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 6:57:18 GMT
CITY RIP-OFF MERCHANTS "But in continental Europe what Le Monde has described as the “robbery of the century” has done almost as much to shape the view of Britain as Brexit itself. Dutch media has called it “organised crime in pinstripe suits” and one of the original German whistleblowers saying he now welcomes Britain’s exit from the EU in the hope it could weaken the influence of London investment banking on European financial institutions." link |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 21, 2019 6:59:29 GMT
Waaaaaaaah!
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 21, 2019 7:03:33 GMT
Hilarious. Bankers are greedy, amoral cunts shockah! Does anyone think that their own bankers are any more moral?
British greedy, amoral cunts. Best in the world.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 7:09:04 GMT
The upside of the prorogation case being 'won' by the government is that when Corbyn gets voted in he can prorogue to his heart's content. That'll be fun to watch - armed forces disbanded by default; Queen's Speech denied; Royal subsidies denied; no opposition in fact to prevent a New Communist State. Moggs'll be hanging from the gates of his mansion along with thousands of other privileged thieves across the sun-lit uplands, and the British people will be free of their chains at last. Let's just let this sink in, eh? No illusion about Corbyn. You hear the news this morning? - they're trying to sack Watson. The country's in danger of being ripped apart by Left/Right extremists. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 7:10:11 GMT
You condone theft of taxpayer money. Fair enough. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 7:11:47 GMT
Hilarious. Bankers are greedy, amoral cunts shockah! Does anyone think that their own bankers are any more moral? British greedy, amoral cunts. Best in the world. That's all right then. Glad to see you're back on your meds. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 21, 2019 7:14:17 GMT
You condone theft of taxpayer money. Fair enough. I condemn the rules as they exists. Can't really blame bankers for exploiting potty,inconsistent rules. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 7:20:54 GMT
Have you actually read the article?
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 21, 2019 7:25:22 GMT
Skimmed TBH. The Guardian makes my skin crawl.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 7:29:29 GMT
They weren't just bending the rules. Why does the G make your skin crawl? The stuff I don't like I don't read, but there's a lot of news to be had, unlike say, the Sun or Express. The Telegraph's just as biased. Times too middle-class for me though; Sunday Times makes me want to throw up.
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 21, 2019 7:35:09 GMT
It's culturally creepy. There's way too much commentary by the kind of middle-class arts graduate poseur who never quite left uni but who has somehow convinced him/herself that they are equipped to opine and stand in judgement over others, from no other position than their own assumed moral superiority.
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Post by perrykneeham on Sept 21, 2019 7:42:14 GMT
Couple of things:
"after German lawmakers tried to close a loophole in 2007."
So, they were bending the rules which we being ineffectual applied.
These people haven't been found guilty of anything yet.
Of the three named ring-leaders, only one is a Brit.
I used to take clients to The Cinnamon Club. It was very nice. Nothing too flashy and good scoff. Not expensive really.
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