NHS

[mids]

Any excuse. And by "close down", obviously I mean sell it to Trump for one Guinea.

[perrykneeham]

It does seem bloody odd the way that consultants/surgeons are allowed to swan about the NHS, doing pretty much what they want and charging accordingly.*


*not my area of speciality, but perhaps someone can give some clarity or explain what goes on in other countries.

[voice]

The problem goes back to a compromise from 1948, basically surgeons and consultants as well as general doctors extracted the sweetheart deal that caused some of this, and this bloke isn't the first to take advantage, but as they said at the onset they would boycott the new NHS unless the Gov agreed, there was little choice at the time.

[voice]

And canada gets round this by not allowing any private healthcare.

[perrykneeham]

Feb 4, 2020 21:51:25 GMT voice said:

The problem goes back to a compromise from 1948, basically surgeons and consultants as well as general doctors extracted the sweetheart deal that caused some of this, and this bloke isn't the first to take advantage, but as they said at the onset they would boycott the new NHS unless the Gov agreed, there was little choice at the time.

Yes, didn't Bevan have to "stuff their mouths with money"?

[perrykneeham]

Feb 4, 2020 21:52:30 GMT voice said:

And canada gets round this by not allowing any private healthcare.

Errrrr .... is that right? As someone working in the Canadian healthcare system, I'm sure you'd have a better fix on this than me, but .....

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_healthcare

[voice]

Well certain things are allowed per province, but basically no private hospitals or Bupa type organizations. We do have private hospices and care homes and small number of private GPs, but it's on the fringes of the provincial health care system

[Repat Van]

Feb 4, 2020 21:52:30 GMT voice said:

And canada gets round this by not allowing any private healthcare.

I don’t get why you would remove the option from people.

Here there is a mix but most people just use Medicare.

Depending on your age and income it becomes expensive to not have private healthcare (I.e you incur a lifetime loading charge and Medicare surcharge levy). There is also a tax rebate if you have private healthcare (means tested).

It’s expressly to remove the pressure off the public system.

[Repat Van]

Feb 4, 2020 22:55:06 GMT voice said:

Well certain things are allowed per province, but basically no private hospitals or Bupa type organizations. We do have private hospices and care homes and small number of private GPs, but it's on the fringes of the provincial health care system

“ Six of Canada's ten provinces used to ban private insurance for publicly insured services to inhibit queue jumping and so preserve fairness in the health care system. In 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that in Quebec, such bans are unconstitutional if the waiting period for care is excessively long. However, this ruling only applies within the Province of Quebec. A second court challenge is currently underway to determine whether the prohibition of private parallel health care violates the patients' right to life, liberty, and security under Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”

Interesting. Seems overly authoritarian to prohibit queue jumping in trying to implement “fairness”.

[voice]

Its just how it was set up in the 60's, depending who you talk you its about fairness for all, but quite a few admit it was to stop profiteering off health care. They wanted to differentiate them selves from the clusterfuck of a health care system south of the boarder and show it can be done better at a fraction of the cost.

[Repat Van]

Feb 5, 2020 2:20:54 GMT voice said:

Its just how it was set up in the 60's, depending who you talk you its about fairness for all, but quite a few admit it was to stop profiteering off health care. They wanted to differentiate them selves from the clusterfuck of a health care system south of the boarder and show it can be done better at a fraction of the cost.

I just think ultimately people should be able to withdraw if they like. But it relievers good results so...*shrugs*

I like the Australia system although current concerns are over the exodus of people from private to public because the benefits of private aren’t really being viewed by those who had private healthcare.

Unfortunately it’s mainly young healthy people fleeing private healthcare which makes it worse. Currently for me it’s cheaper to have private healthcare.

On a side note though I just learned that while the Australian healthcare system is pretty impressive we are second, only to the USA, in the number of people avoiding healthcare due to cost.


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Australia

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2020 18:25:09 GMT perrykneeham said:

Which State pays? France?

It strikes me that they'd be better off ditching the monthly subscription: isn't that an unnecessary burden if they're going to treat you anyway?

Well yeah - the French State. They cover 70% of all care, the rest is paid by the patient (or his or her insurance). Unless you're earning below the i/c level, about €12k, when it's free.

So in answer to your second point, it isn't a subscription: you either cover the 30% or you pay for medical insurance to cover it. Unless you're rolling, best to pay for the insurance, because a hospital stay costs a lot. And 30% of a lot's still a lot to most of us.

[perrykneeham]

Thanks, that's an interesting insight. Why don't you just play the Blighty card and have the NHS pay?

[Deleted]

I opted to be in he system here: pay taxes and NI contributions.

A lot of expats use the S1 which means the UK pays. But strictly speaking you shouldn't be in the country for more than 6 months. They also keep their British car number plates and to all intents and purposes they're temporary visitors, but they're not.

[perrykneeham]

Oh yeah, I think I remember that now. My in-laws certainly went across to the French system but they were very well integrated. Well, the MIL was.

[Deleted]

Odd how often you see that - one of the partners not particularly liking being in France. If anything, Mrs Ootlg definitely would not want to return to the UK, whereas I don't particularly mind where I live providing we have no close neighbours and it's not too cold/wet. Must say I love the country though - if you can speak the language it's great; if you can't (like a lot of ex-pats) it's not so great because the French like to communicate. This weird myth about the French being stand-offish usually comes from those who don't speak a word of the language.

[mids]

It must be hard learning a language as an adult but why not just make the effort and learn? It must be a bit sh*t living somewhere and not understanding most of what's going on.

[perrykneeham]

Yeah, and people can be naturally reserved and a bit formal. Not, in itself, a bad thing. Italians can be very formal in a sort of macho/proud/respect my status way

My FIL is one of life's nice guys. He never learned the language and was, I think, just a bit modest and bashful. He would always be asked to join in with local events and join the villagers in petanque.

[perrykneeham]

Feb 5, 2020 8:54:05 GMT mids said:

It must be hard learning a language as an adult but why not just make the effort and learn? It must be a bit sh*t living somewhere and not understanding most of what's going on.

Yeah, I was astonished by my MIL, a woman with little formal education, who became fluent in a couple of years. I was never convinced that she could read French but, I the kingdom of the blind etc.

In my hubris, I was convinced that she would struggle without lessons, but she didn't.

[Deleted]

Well yeah. Have to admit that GCE French helped; French can be quite difficult.