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Post by perrykneeham on Feb 19, 2019 19:13:48 GMT
PMQs tomorrow: "So, what would the right honourable Leader of the Opposition do?"
She's not so much green as cabbage-looking, our PM.
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Post by flatandy on Feb 19, 2019 19:40:41 GMT
That seems ridiculous to me. You shouldn't be able to strip citizenship or change the rights of people based on their beliefs. That's a very dangerous road to go down.
The more I've thought about this the more it bothers me. She should get standard consular assistance and standard citizenship rights.
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Post by Repat Van on Feb 19, 2019 19:42:09 GMT
That seems ridiculous to me. You shouldn't be able to strip citizenship or change the rights of people based on their beliefs. That's a very dangerous road to go down. The more I've thought about this the more it bothers me. She should get standard consular assistance and standard citizenship rights. If she herself, as an adult, had formally and legally given up her British citizenship to acquire another one that would be a different thing. It doesn’t appear she has. |
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voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,222
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Post by voice on Feb 19, 2019 19:46:25 GMT
yeah, being stripped of citizenship is a slippery slope, I have no issue not helping her if she renounced her UK citizenship, if not she still gets those rights and protections, including a fair and just trial of any wrong doings she took part in when she supported and joined this terrorist organisation
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Post by perrykneeham on Feb 19, 2019 19:50:30 GMT
That seems ridiculous to me. You shouldn't be able to strip citizenship or change the rights of people based on their beliefs. That's a very dangerous road to go down. The more I've thought about this the more it bothers me. She should get standard consular assistance and standard citizenship rights. Ah, except that she disowned UK and maintains allegiance to an outlawed, hostile "state." |
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Post by flatandy on Feb 19, 2019 19:53:56 GMT
There's a formal way to renounce UK citizenship. She hasn't done that, so is therefore legally a UK citizen. Changing citizens rights because of the bullshit they've spouted is, as I've said, seriously dodgy.
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voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,222
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Post by voice on Feb 19, 2019 19:56:52 GMT
and most if not all others stripped of their citizenship have been duel nationals, this move makes her stateless, and we have often condemned other regimes for doing this to their undesirables, so why would we do that?
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Post by perrykneeham on Feb 19, 2019 20:09:04 GMT
There's a formal way to renounce UK citizenship. She hasn't done that, so is therefore legally a UK citizen. Changing citizens rights because of the bullshit they've spouted is, as I've said, seriously dodgy. I agree it's dodgy, but I don't think the formal declaration holds water. In practice, she's an adult who has renounced her citizenship and still claims allegiance to a hostile entity. |
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Post by flatandy on Feb 19, 2019 20:13:19 GMT
Except that she hasn't renounced her citizenship. And now she's left stateless.
Also, even worse, there's not even a hint of due process about what's happened. It's purely the whim of the home secretary.
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Post by flatandy on Feb 19, 2019 20:13:32 GMT
If the Home Secretary, on his own, can just decide what rights you have, how are the Jews going to feel when Corbyn makes Ken Livingston home secretary?
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Post by Repat Van on Feb 19, 2019 20:15:41 GMT
There's a formal way to renounce UK citizenship. She hasn't done that, so is therefore legally a UK citizen. Changing citizens rights because of the bullshit they've spouted is, as I've said, seriously dodgy. I agree it's dodgy, but I don't think the formal declaration holds water. In practice, she's an adult who has renounced her citizenship and still claims allegiance to a hostile entity. She hasn’t renounced it though. It’s a formal process and she hasn’t been through it. It’s like saying somebody is married just because they say they are. Thst’s not how it works. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Feb 19, 2019 20:48:05 GMT
Formal process. Pfft.
Like the formal process of declaring yourself divorced?
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moggyonspeed
New Member
"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
Posts: 7,670
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Post by moggyonspeed on Feb 19, 2019 21:04:49 GMT
She travelled to ISIS on a stolen passport (her sister’s) which has since been revoked. New passport-wise therefore, it will take some time to process any kind of papers to get her back, starting with proving she actually is who she says she is which, to my mind, should involve DNA testing, fingerprinting, extensive interviews etc. We don’t want any old ne’erdowell back in the old country after all, do we? We want only the really special ones who can pretty much guarantee a hard-right backlash and at the same time act as a recruiting sergeant for Islamist fuckwits nationwide.
Saiid Javid would have my full support in dragging out this process for as long as it takes to be sure of all the facts - in perpetuity if needs be. As long as our “direction of travel” is the right one, then I wouldn’t mind betting that most British people will be happy.
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voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,222
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Post by voice on Feb 19, 2019 21:05:11 GMT
well yes, there is a legal framework, and if it can simply be disregarded for her, whats to stop it being disregarded for anyone else the gov at the time doesn't like for what ever reason?
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Post by Minge är en jävla besserwisser on Feb 19, 2019 21:29:30 GMT
Shamima Begum, who joined the Islamic State group in Syria aged 15, is to lose her UK citizenship.
Whitehall sources said it was possible to strip the 19-year-old of British nationality as she was eligible for citizenship of another country.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47299907I'm not convinced this is all really apposite. If a fifteen year old girl had been enticed abroad by a catholic priest I suspect different standards would be in play.
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Post by Repat Van on Feb 19, 2019 21:30:29 GMT
She travelled to ISIS on a stolen passport (her sister’s) which has since been revoked. New passport-wise therefore, it will take some time to process any kind of papers to get her back, starting with proving she actually is who she says she is which, to my mind, should involve DNA testing, fingerprinting, extensive interviews etc. We don’t want any old ne’erdowell back in the old country after all, do we? We want only the really special ones who can pretty much guarantee a hard-right backlash and at the same time act as a recruiting sergeant for Islamist fuckwits nationwide. Saiid Javid would have my full support in dragging out this process for as long as it takes to be sure of all the facts - in perpetuity if needs be. As long as our “direction of travel” is the right one, then I wouldn’t mind betting that most British people will be happy. Do most people have to undergo DNA testing to get a new passport? |
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Post by Repat Van on Feb 19, 2019 21:31:40 GMT
Shamima Begum, who joined the Islamic State group in Syria aged 15, is to lose her UK citizenship.
Whitehall sources said it was possible to strip the 19-year-old of British nationality as she was eligible for citizenship of another country.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47299907I'm not convinced this is all really apposite. If a fifteen year old girl had been enticed abroad by a catholic priest I suspect different standards would be in play. Really? You think it would be different had a white 15 year old girl be enticed overseas by a Christian? You don’t say. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Feb 19, 2019 21:34:21 GMT
Is her being enticed overseas the issue?
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Post by perrykneeham on Feb 19, 2019 21:40:22 GMT
Still waiting for that "formal process" link BTW.
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Post by flatandy on Feb 19, 2019 21:43:34 GMT
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