So, should she be let back in?

[perrykneeham]

Feb 19, 2019 21:43:34 GMT flatandy said:

www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality

Okay, and how do you feel she complies?

[flatandy]

I don't think she does. As far as I can tell from the reporting, she's not renounced her citizenship so she should keep the full rights of a citizen

[perrykneeham]

So,the formal route is a red herring?

[perrykneeham]

Perhaps you should read the full guidance and consider the obligations from both sides. The UK is not obliged to enforce someone's nationality.

[flatandy]

Eh? What are you on about? She's not renounced her citizenship, so she's still a citizen. If someone says "Britain doesn't feel like my home any more" - like a million racist arseholes do when they hear foreign accents on the street - is it fine for the home secretary to remove all of their rights, too?

[moggyonspeed]

"Do most people have to undergo DNA testing to get a new passport?"

No, but if there's doubt as to who she really is, I'd use the full armoury of tests on her before we even consider paperwork. And of course there's huge doubt as to her honesty and by implication her identity, having (so she says) stolen from her own sister, deceived her "loved ones" as to her true motives (I use the term loved ones with a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek), and been totally unfazed by the sight of the odd infidel's head in a bucket. Oh, and as for "I didn't know that young girls were killed at the Manchester Arena"? Yeah, right! Don''t make me LARF!

[flatandy]

What the f**k does "enforce someone's nationality" mean? If nationality isn't enforced, does someone need to prominently announce how British they are at certain intervals, or else they'll stop being British?

[voice]

No ones ever enforced my nationality, I've spent most of my adult life living outside the UK, but I still retain the rights as a citizen.

[Repat Van]

Feb 19, 2019 21:59:23 GMT perrykneeham said:

So,the formal route is a red herring?

It’s not a red herring. The link you have is the formal. You have to apply to renounce your citizenship and have it accepted.

You can’t just randomly say it. You also have to be 18 to apply so anything she did as a school girl is moot.

[Repat Van]

Feb 19, 2019 22:10:04 GMT moggyonspeed said:

"Do most people have to undergo DNA testing to get a new passport?"

No, but if there's doubt as to who she really is, I'd use the full armoury of tests on her before we even consider paperwork. And of course there's huge doubt as to her honesty and by implication her identity, having (so she says) stolen from her own sister, deceived her "loved ones" as to her true motives (I use the term loved ones with a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek), and been totally unfazed by the sight of the odd infidel's head in a bucket. Oh, and as for "I didn't know that young girls were killed at the Manchester Arena"? Yeah, right! Don''t make me LARF!

But is this something applied to anybody else? If not why are we creating a separate route just for one person? The law is the law.

[Repat Van]

“After you've applied

You’ll get a ‘declaration of renunciation’ if your application is successful. This will be your application form, officially signed and stamped.

The date your citizenship or status stops will be shown on the form.

Your supporting documents will be returned to you whether you’re successful or not.”

This Baloo, see? ‘Formal route’.

[perrykneeham]

Feb 19, 2019 22:08:11 GMT flatandy said:

Eh? What are you on about? She's not renounced her citizenship, so she's still a citizen. If someone says "Britain doesn't feel like my home any more" - like a million racist arseholes do when they hear foreign accents on the street - is it fine for the home secretary to remove all of their rights, too?

Depends if they then go overseas for a number of years and join a hostile organisation, antithetical to the continued existence of UK.

[perrykneeham]

Feb 19, 2019 22:58:22 GMT Repat Van said:

“After you've applied

You’ll get a ‘declaration of renunciation’ if your application is successful. This will be your application form, officially signed and stamped.

The date your citizenship or status stops will be shown on the form.

Your supporting documents will be returned to you whether you’re successful or not.”

This Baloo, see? ‘Formal route’.

Nah. You've not read it.

And, that's supposing that you're applying: they can't force you to remain a citizen by insisting on a form being filled in.

"1 Who can renounce British nationality?
If you are a British citizen, a British overseas territories citizen, a British Overseas citizen, a
British subject or a British National (Overseas), you may renounce your citizenship or status
if:
• EITHER you already have some citizenship or nationality other than the British nationality
that you wish to renounce. (But see note below).
• OR you can satisfy the Home Secretary, or Governor if you wish to renounce British
overseas territories citizenship, that you will acquire another citizenship or nationality after
renouncing, and
• you are of full age, i.e. aged 18 or over. (But if you are under 18 and have been married or
in a civil partnership, you are treated as being of full age for this purpose), and
• you are of full capacity. The British Nationality Act 1981 defines full capacity as being “not
of unsound mind”. We consider this requirement met if you have some understanding of the
meaning and consequences of renunciation.
The Secretary of State or Governor has discretion to waive the requirement to be of full
capacity if he thinks it is in the applicant’s best interests to do so. If you are completing this
form on behalf of someone else who is not of full capacity and for whom you are responsible
you should complete the form as fully as possible, and explain at part 7 of the form why it
would be in the applicant’s best interests for him or her to renounce their citizenship, despite
their inability to understand fully what is involved. The form should be supported by
confirmation of the applicant’s mental condition and of the fact that they are in your care.
NOTES
• You should check whether you also need to renounce any other form of British nationailty"

[Repat Van]

Feb 20, 2019 7:34:56 GMT perrykneeham said:

Feb 19, 2019 22:58:22 GMT Repat Van said:

“After you've applied

You’ll get a ‘declaration of renunciation’ if your application is successful. This will be your application form, officially signed and stamped.

The date your citizenship or status stops will be shown on the form.

Your supporting documents will be returned to you whether you’re successful or not.”

This Baloo, see? ‘Formal route’.

Nah. You've not read it.

And, that's supposing that you're applying: they can't force you to remain a citizen by insisting on a form being filled in.

"1 Who can renounce British nationality?
If you are a British citizen, a British overseas territories citizen, a British Overseas citizen, a
British subject or a British National (Overseas), you may renounce your citizenship or status
if:
• EITHER you already have some citizenship or nationality other than the British nationality
that you wish to renounce. (But see note below).
• OR you can satisfy the Home Secretary, or Governor if you wish to renounce British
overseas territories citizenship, that you will acquire another citizenship or nationality after
renouncing, and
• you are of full age, i.e. aged 18 or over. (But if you are under 18 and have been married or
in a civil partnership, you are treated as being of full age for this purpose), and
• you are of full capacity. The British Nationality Act 1981 defines full capacity as being “not
of unsound mind”. We consider this requirement met if you have some understanding of the
meaning and consequences of renunciation.
The Secretary of State or Governor has discretion to waive the requirement to be of full
capacity if he thinks it is in the applicant’s best interests to do so. If you are completing this
form on behalf of someone else who is not of full capacity and for whom you are responsible
you should complete the form as fully as possible, and explain at part 7 of the form why it
would be in the applicant’s best interests for him or her to renounce their citizenship, despite
their inability to understand fully what is involved. The form should be supported by
confirmation of the applicant’s mental condition and of the fact that they are in your care.
NOTES
• You should check whether you also need to renounce any other form of British nationailty"

The only person not reading it is you.

You’re doing your usual “double down even though I am blatantly wrong” effort.

The argument was they are under no obligation to afford her the rights of citizenship as she has renounced it.

She hasn’t, she is still legally a citizen and so still has all the rights of citizenship until such point she formally renounces them.

[perrykneeham]

Oh, there's a new argument now, is there?

"It is understood the home secretary is relying on section 40(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 to strip Begum of her passport. It says he can “by order deprive a person of a citizenship status if the Secretary of State is satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good”, and if they have behaved in a way that “is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom”."

[Deleted]

The UK does not revoke citizenship except in the case of dual nationality. They've suggested she has dual British/Bangladeshi nationality but this is unproven. The Home Secretary is playing to the audience and is wrong.

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2019 7:55:44 GMT perrykneeham said:

Oh, there's a new argument now, is there?

"It is understood the home secretary is relying on section 40(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 to strip Begum of her passport. It says he can “by order deprive a person of a citizenship status if the Secretary of State is satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good”, and if they have behaved in a way that “is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom”."

To make someone stateless is illegal.

[Deleted]

But on checking, the act was changed in 2002. And British citizens can, as Baloo says, be deprived of their citizenship.

link

Country's going (gone?) to the dogs.

[perrykneeham]

Yeah, so I'm right. One day Van will spot when she's being led by the nose. Doubling down, indeed.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I'd made a few checks - obviously not enough - while considering taking nationality. The law's changed.