Politically correct statues

[flatandy]

Disney is apparently re-designing Splash Mountain so it's not themed off Song Of The South. There's a meltdown about that from the idiot-brigade, too.

[jimboky]

DC's Emancipation Memorial, target of protests, was funded by former slaves: reports

www.foxnews.com/us/dcs-emancipation-memorial-target-of-protests-was-funded-by-former-slaves-reports



are these people simply dumber then shitt, or is there another agenda?

[voice]

One of the first questions Atheists are asked by true believers and doubters alike is, “If you don’t believe in god, there’s nothing to prevent you from committing crimes, is there? Without the fear of hell-fire and eternal damnation, you can do anything you like, can’t you?”

It is hard to believe that even intelligent and educated people could hold such an opinion, but they do! It seems never to have occurred to them that the Greeks and Romans, whose gods and goddesses were something less than paragons of virtue, nevertheless led lives not obviously worse than many christians, pagans such as Aristotle and Marcus Aurelius managed to produce ethical treatises of great sophistication, a sophistication rarely if ever equaled by Christian moralists.

Atheists are subject to the same rules of sociology, psychology, and neurophysiology that govern the behavior of all members of our species, religionists included. Moreover, despite protestations to the contrary, we may assert as a general rule that when religionists practice ethical behavior, it isn’t really due to their fear of hell-fire and damnation, nor is it due to their hopes of heaven. Ethical behavior, regardless of who the practitioner may be, results always from the same causes and is regulated by the same forces, and has nothing to do with the presence or absence of religious belief.

Though to throw in another well worn trope, thats true non the less, for a good person to do evil you need religion.

[perrykneeham]

I'm pretty sure that no religions say that you can't behave morally if you're not religious.

[voice]

I think you'll find that's the central argument they use against atheists.

Read back over the idiots witterings about this.

[mids]

I'm with Jonathan Miller.

"Let me say right at the outset that I’ve always been very reluctant to use the word “atheist,” not because I’m embarrassed or ashamed of it but I think that this view scarcely deserves a title. No one has a special name for not believing in witches–I’m not an “a-hexist”–and I don’t have a word for not believing in ghosts or anything of that sort. So the idea of there being a special name for what I’ve never had–which is a belief in God–seems to me to be odd, to say the least."

[flatandy]

Jun 26, 2020 16:11:44 GMT rick49 said:

another interesting thing. if the democrat party supports taking down the memorial of jefferson, they have to torch the bill of rights and the constitution itself.

You are getting increasingly silly.

[voice]

I like that, next time some godbotherer button holes me and asks why I dont believe in their sky fairy I'll just so say 'cos I dont' no need to my name it I suppose

[wetkingcanute]

I was born into a non practicing Christian family. But had all the cultural upbringing of Christianity at school. Christened and confirmation at thirteen. RE classes etc.; and I became a choir boy at my local church - which I loved. But I just lost my faith over the years. It was difficult as I remember how much solace I got from it when upset at Boarding school. But I simply could not believe in Christianity. Or any other religion. And finally "came out" as a fully paid up atheist in my mid twenties. But I don't knock people who still have faith.
On the question of morality I would suggest to anyone who is really interested to consider: Euthyphro’s Dilemma.

[mids]

"I became a choir boy at my local church - which I loved."

Was it the bumming?

[voice]

Funnily enough that mirrors my early religious life WKC, sans the boarding school obviously, though I think it was confirmation class that did for me, we had to study the bible, I ended up reading the whole thing, not just the bits the vicar directed us to, and the more i read the more thought, this makes no logical sense, and I couldn't understand why we were being asked to be so credulous. I stuck with it till about 15 or 16 then had to admit it was bollox and a sip of wine on Sunday was not enough reason to keep going.

[voice]

Jun 26, 2020 16:34:48 GMT mids said:

"I became a choir boy at my local church - which I loved."

Was it the bumming?

Thought that the thing he seeking solace from at boarding school...

[mids]

I was brought up in a non-religious household. My dad was quietly anti-religion, my mum less so. I suspect she was somewhat agnostic but religion was barely mentioned. My contact with religion was pretty scarce. In primary school, it was the annual harvest festival and a once a month (it might even have been once a term) sermon from the local minister which didn't really understand. I did learn the Lord's Prayer at some stage and would recite it from time to time at school because we were told to. It never bothered me one way or another. At secondary school we'd again get a once month or possibly once a term sermon. It was just something to endure with really being all that bothered. I haven't been Christened.

[wetkingcanute]

"I became a choir boy at my local church - which I loved."

Was it the bumming?


No - I was C of E - not Catholic.

[wetkingcanute]

There was a young vicar called Bings
Who talked about God and such things
But his secret desire was a boy in the choir
With a bottom like jelly on springs

[Marshall]

Jun 26, 2020 13:54:28 GMT flatandy said:

Jun 26, 2020 6:45:34 GMT Marshall said:

There is no “god”.
You’re saying all of existence is just so many atoms and molecules moving around, bumping into each other.
Then what does it matter that several hundred million people died in the 20th century due to war and famine? What does it matter if a loved one dies or is brutalized? If you feel sorrow or empathy over it, that’s just neurons firing away in your brain in a certain manner. Just mechanical stuff. Just matter arranging itself in a way to produce a feeling that doesn’t really exist (for some inexplicable reason).
So if you’re a materialist and display empathy you either enjoy the self-delusion or are (to be blunt) virtue signaling.

Alternatively, if you believe that you only care for others because of your belief in a higher power, then you're basically a sociopath. You're not caring because you're a decent person, you're only doing it because it's imposed on you. Particularly if you only do it because you want reward or to avoid suffering in an after life, where you have to be bribed to not be an arsehole.

Yes, that's quite true but only because you are still going with the religious concept of god ("a higher power"). It's a mental trap to think that there's 1) either a higher power in charge of everything or 2) there's nothing.

Agree with voice that you don't need religion to get people to act decent to each other. Plenty of evidence to dispute that, but it's a favorite ploy of religion to convince you otherwise so you'll join the flock.

[flatandy]

Jun 26, 2020 16:44:58 GMT mids said:

I was brought up in a non-religious household. My dad was quietly anti-religion, my mum less so. I suspect she was somewhat agnostic but religion was barely mentioned. My contact with religion was pretty scarce. In primary school, it was the annual harvest festival and a once a month (it might even have been once a term) sermon from the local minister which didn't really understand. I did learn the Lord's Prayer at some stage and would recite it from time to time at school because we were told to. It never bothered me one way or another. At secondary school we'd again get a once month or possibly once a term sermon. It was just something to endure with really being all that bothered. I haven't been Christened.

Similar here. I went to the CofE primary and middle schools.

That meant morning assembly with some hymn, or maybe a song like Morning Has Broken. The lord's prayer maybe once a month. Harvest festival. School play perhaps being Noah's Ark or Jonah and the Whale or whatever. Going into an actual church once or twice a year.

For two years the headmaster at our middle school was an angrily religious methodist, so it was all methodist hymns every day in assembly. But no other teachers cared so it was still a bit half-hearted.

[perrykneeham]

Euthyphro's dilemma is only a dilemma if you believe in a deity and that it is jealous and judgemental.

Again, religion and faith are different things. Faith is more easily conceived of and expended upon through a framework of religion, but that's all it is really.

[perrykneeham]

The Methodists are a joyless lot. I was brought up in a non-religious family. Respectfully non-religious. I went to a muscular CofE school and enjoyed the routine and peace of daily chapel. I have also lived in a number of Catholic countries and been impressed by the sincere quiet and convivial life of the Catholics. Many of the nicest, cleverest people I have ever known have been religious, so the adolescent vehemence of the atheist rationalist always makes me chuckle.

[Marshall]

Euthyphro's dilemma is a dilemma because morality has nothing to do with "divine pronouncements".