Living Planet

[perrykneeham]

Jul 17, 2024 14:14:44 GMT Repat Van said:

Jul 17, 2024 13:54:47 GMT perrykneeham said:

The King's Speech had some reasonable bits in. Some utter wank, too.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c250v53jz5dt

I can't see what they hope to achieve by nationalising the railways, but not the water companies.

Also, no mention of VAT on private schools and they jibbed on votes for 16 year olds.

Did not listen but it is mentioned in the article here:

“ The government sets out aims to "modernise" the asylum and immigration system, as well as removing the VAT exemption for private school fees”

[brThe BBC news this evening said that no mention was made of private schools and VAT. That's odd. Maybe I misheard.

[perrykneeham]

Or votes for 16 year olds.

Amusingly, there was a wonderful example of Newspeak: the "cost of living crisis" is now the "cosy of living challenge". Haha. What utter, clumsy turds.

[mids]

"cosy living challenge"

Sounds Danish.

[flatandy]

Cost of Living Crisis is such a hogwash thing. That’s something that’s always existed. People need to learn to live within their means. You can’t have the latest iPhone with the fastest plan and live as a single person in a 3 bedroom house if you have a crappy job. It’s nothing new. Suck it up and deal with it. The state should provide the safety net to make sure everyone has basic needs met, but basic needs are not luxuries. And once your basic needs are met, you should work your own budget to handle things properly. You might be living in a shared house, on lentils, and commuting on a crappy bicycle. Check your entitlement at the door, needy adults.

[flatandy]

Jul 17, 2024 13:54:47 GMT perrykneeham said:

The King's Speech had some reasonable bits in. Some utter wank, too.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c250v53jz5dt

I can't see what they hope to achieve by nationalising the railways, but not the water companies.

Also, no mention of VAT on private schools and they jibbed on votes for 16 year olds.

Renationalising railways makes some sense, but only if the government is willing to properly subsidise cheap rail travel to get people off the roads. If the model is just to keep charging silly fares, then it’s not really a public service and utility, it’s a tool for the rich. It obviously makes sense to bring into public ownership any parts that are going broke or failing, because that should be zero cost.

But prioritising trains over water is clearly silly.

I thought I did see VAT on private schools, which is good.

Votes for 16 year olds I’m torn on. I don’t particularly object - if you’re old enough to make decisions for yourself, say driving or getting a proper job or serving in the military, then you should be voting. But 16 to 18 years old is a sort of no-mans land where some things are allowed and some not, so who’s to say voting should be at the bottom end.

[perrykneeham]

Jul 17, 2024 23:37:22 GMT flatandy said:

Cost of Living Crisis is such a hogwash thing. That’s something that’s always existed. People need to learn to live within their means. You can’t have the latest iPhone with the fastest plan and live as a single person in a 3 bedroom house if you have a crappy job. It’s nothing new. Suck it up and deal with it. The state should provide the safety net to make sure everyone has basic needs met, but basic needs are not luxuries. And once your basic needs are met, you should work your own budget to handle things properly. You might be living in a shared house, on lentils, and commuting on a crappy bicycle. Check your entitlement at the door, needy adults.

I think FA has seen the light and grown into a responsible Tory.

I think the same is true of the child benefit cap, and child benefit generally: people should consider whether they can afford kids before having them.

[perrykneeham]

Jul 17, 2024 23:46:40 GMT flatandy said:

Jul 17, 2024 13:54:47 GMT perrykneeham said:

The King's Speech had some reasonable bits in. Some utter wank, too.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c250v53jz5dt

I can't see what they hope to achieve by nationalising the railways, but not the water companies.

Also, no mention of VAT on private schools and they jibbed on votes for 16 year olds.

Renationalising railways makes some sense, but only if the government is willing to properly subsidise cheap rail travel to get people off the roads. If the model is just to keep charging silly fares, then it’s not really a public service and utility, it’s a tool for the rich. It obviously makes sense to bring into public ownership any parts that are going broke or failing, because that should be zero cost.

But prioritising trains over water is clearly silly.

I thought I did see VAT on private schools, which is good.

Votes for 16 year olds I’m torn on. I don’t particularly object - if you’re old enough to make decisions for yourself, say driving or getting a proper job or serving in the military, then you should be voting. But 16 to 18 years old is a sort of no-mans land where some things are allowed and some not, so who’s to say voting should be at the bottom end.

[perrykneeham]

VAT on private schools is silly, spiteful, dogshit. I guess it's fine if they're also prepared impose VAT on universities.

[mids]

They don't want to tax woke so unis won't have to pay VAT.

[perrykneeham]

16 year olds are not allowed to "serve" in the military. They are only allowed to be trainees, and cannot be deployed. Children are not allowed to sign most contracts (ironically, they can get themselves striped up with the army's Catch-22 contracts though, but only with patental consent) or buy alcohol, certain films or tobacco, full stop.

There's no way that allowing them the vote is a rational position. It's bent.

[mids]

They can't even be trusted to buy a packet of Bic safety razors.

[perrykneeham]

Or a knife, or glue.

[Repat Van]

Jul 17, 2024 23:37:22 GMT flatandy said:

Cost of Living Crisis is such a hogwash thing. That’s something that’s always existed. People need to learn to live within their means. You can’t have the latest iPhone with the fastest plan and live as a single person in a 3 bedroom house if you have a crappy job. It’s nothing new. Suck it up and deal with it. The state should provide the safety net to make sure everyone has basic needs met, but basic needs are not luxuries. And once your basic needs are met, you should work your own budget to handle things properly. You might be living in a shared house, on lentils, and commuting on a crappy bicycle. Check your entitlement at the door, needy adults.

OLD MAN WARNING!

[Repat Van]

I cannot believe there are still people who think that the only cost of living crisis is too many people want fancy phones and holidays.

This is on par with the belief that people cannot afford to get on the housing ladder because they have Netflix accounts and go out for avocado on toast from time to time. (Imagine advising parents and kids to just “live in a shared house and manage with a bicycle) to cut costs. LOL!

Oh to live your entire life with such levels of privilege than you have never experienced a household that has to deal with actually living on the breadline….

(Or oh to live your life in such a bubble that you don’t know anybody struggling with the CoL working on the front line dealing with families struggling with the CoL crisis….)

[moggyonspeed]

Jul 18, 2024 7:30:38 GMT perrykneeham said:

16 year olds are not allowed to "serve" in the military. They are only allowed to be trainees, and cannot be deployed. Children are not allowed to sign most contracts (ironically, they can get themselves striped up with the army's Catch-22 contracts though, but only with patental consent) or buy alcohol, certain films or tobacco, full stop.

There's no way that allowing them the vote is a rational position. It's bent.

I agree with a lot of that.

Thing is, we lack any kind of coherent, consistent and rational discussion as to when we deem adulthood to start. Youngsters can do more "adult things" as they get older e.g. from the age of 10 (when they are deemed to be criminally responsible) to the age of 17 (when, as we all know, they can apply for a full driving licence). Should we move toward having one age e.g. 16, when a youngster should be deemed to be an adult (with all the benefits and threats that go with it)? I don't know - I really don't.

As for not giving 16-year-olds the vote - well, we're on really shaky ground here too because, frankly, there are some 26-, 36-, 46-, 56- and 66-year-olds to whom I wouldn't give the vote, as they clearly lack the mental acuity of many 16-year-olds I've met.

[Repat Van]

Also there is nothing wrong with people wanting some degree of comfort (if not luxury.)

iPhones are unnecessary but having a decent mobile is pretty much a necessity in our world now (especially as many no longer have landlines.)
There is nothing wrong with a family with young kids wanting some kind of transport to ferry people around (especially if you live in an area with limited public transport) and there is also nothing wrong with a society where you aren’t expected to have housemates your entire life / well into your middle age / pension age.

But that is not what the COL crisis is about. People are actually struggling for basics and things that were the norm in our parents / grandparents time are becoming more unaffordable now.

[Repat Van]

I don’t think 16 year olds shouldn’t be able to vote. I get the argument in favour of it but they are stupid so no. People freak out at the idea of 16 year olds marrying / dating much older people because they are “too immature” but suddenly have decided they are old enough to decide on the government of the country.

Hmmm….

I get the argument that they pay taxes but so do other groups of adults (such as non citizen / non permanent residents) don’t get the vote either.

I doubt I would care massively if they did get the vote but it is also clear that Labourites only want to consider this option, not because they think there is an injustice at play but because they think young people are more likely to vote for them.

[Repat Van]

Jul 18, 2024 7:15:02 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jul 17, 2024 23:37:22 GMT flatandy said:

Cost of Living Crisis is such a hogwash thing. That’s something that’s always existed. People need to learn to live within their means. You can’t have the latest iPhone with the fastest plan and live as a single person in a 3 bedroom house if you have a crappy job. It’s nothing new. Suck it up and deal with it. The state should provide the safety net to make sure everyone has basic needs met, but basic needs are not luxuries. And once your basic needs are met, you should work your own budget to handle things properly. You might be living in a shared house, on lentils, and commuting on a crappy bicycle. Check your entitlement at the door, needy adults.

I think FA has seen the light and grown into a responsible Tory.

I think the same is true of the child benefit cap, and child benefit generally: people should consider whether they can afford kids before having them.

I know this may come as a shock to people but it can frequently be the case that people could afford children when they had them. And then life circumstances change things.

Also the government and other thought leaders / commentators are constantly whining about birth rates. It’s weird to whine about them and then do nothing to support people having children.

[Repat Van]

Jul 18, 2024 7:24:16 GMT perrykneeham said:

VAT on private schools is silly, spiteful, dogshit. I guess it's fine if they're also prepared impose VAT on universities.

Well not really. There is no free option for university.

Plenty of free options for schooling. Not sure who it’s spiting either given that those making the laws, overwhelmingly will be paying this VAT if the change is brought in.

I am not massively in favour but I also have zero issue with it either.

[Repat Van]

Jul 18, 2024 10:29:42 GMT moggyonspeed said:

Jul 18, 2024 7:30:38 GMT perrykneeham said:

16 year olds are not allowed to "serve" in the military. They are only allowed to be trainees, and cannot be deployed. Children are not allowed to sign most contracts (ironically, they can get themselves striped up with the army's Catch-22 contracts though, but only with patental consent) or buy alcohol, certain films or tobacco, full stop.

There's no way that allowing them the vote is a rational position. It's bent.

I agree with a lot of that.

Thing is, we lack any kind of coherent, consistent and rational discussion as to when we deem adulthood to start. Youngsters can do more "adult things" as they get older e.g. from the age of 10 (when they are deemed to be criminally responsible) to the age of 17 (when, as we all know, they can apply for a full driving licence). Should we move toward having one age e.g. 16, when a youngster should be deemed to be an adult (with all the benefits and threats that go with it)? I don't know - I really don't.

As for not giving 16-year-olds the vote - well, we're on really shaky ground here too because, frankly, there are some 26-, 36-, 46-, 56- and 66-year-olds to whom I wouldn't give the vote, as they clearly lack the mental acuity of many 16-year-olds I've met.

I genuinely have never met a 16 year old that wasn’t an annoying, immature idiot.

Which is to be expected for that age group I guess.