Caitlyn Jenner opposes trans girls in women's sports

[mids]

That's it exactly. The report itself is excellent but what it found was weak or no evidence for the interventions. People seem to forget that this is about paediatric medicine but most people seem to agree that children are vulnerable to drug and surgical interventions that aren't fully tested.

[mids]

Experts, eh?

[perrykneeham]

Nah, the Left only talk a good game, for their own benefit.

[Repat Van]

Apr 11, 2024 14:07:27 GMT happyhammerhead said:

Largely agree with the Cass report.

It's pretty weak though. Amounts to "we really haven't a clue", which I suppose is good when it comes to hormone treatment, etc...

Don't give them to kids, when you have no clear evidence of positive results.

People seem especially biased about them because they are hormone driven (although I have read they are prescribed to delay onset off puberty on children which have nothing to do with transgender identities - specifically when they have abnormally early puberty. Let me try to find where I read it.)

[flatandy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure puberty blockers are fairly widely prescribed.

[mids]

Puberty blockers are prescribed in the case of precocious puberty, that is to delay the onset of very early puberty where it might cause medical or psychological harm. In the case of trans, they're prescribed to delay the natural onset of puberty. These are two different things. It's not uncommon for a drug developed for one thing to also be useful for another e.g., viagra but they do have to go through rigorous testing before they're used for something else. This is particularly true where children are concerned because they're still developing and especially where there are other issues alongside the transiness. Trans children have much higher rates of ADHD and other mental problems, which adds another layer of uncertainty. All this report is saying is, hang on, the evidence to use these interventions is weak, we need to know more to be sure. It's just standard medical caution.

[voice]

In a stopped clock moment mids is about right, puberty blockers have been used for ages, they were developed for pernicious puberty, and while off lable uses of drugs are not uncommon, it's less tested for.

However as we've used puberty blockers to delay early onset puberty, they've also been shown to be not that detrimental in children and are stopped with little effect when the child is old enough to commence puberty, so the idea put forward by the trasnobsesives that they are somehow irreversible is not backed up by evidence.

[mids]

Of course what the Cass Review doesn't tell us is why the left are so obsessed with children's genitals.

[happyhammerhead]

Apr 12, 2024 16:49:28 GMT Repat Van said:

People seem especially biased about them because they are hormone driven (although I have read they are prescribed to delay onset off puberty on children which have nothing to do with transgender identities - specifically when they have abnormally early puberty. Let me try to find where I read it.)

Yes, they have their uses.

I'm not remotely obsessed with transgender. I just think that with teenagers, gender dysphoria is better treated with counselling than drugs.

[Repat Van]

Apr 12, 2024 17:17:45 GMT mids said:

Puberty blockers are prescribed in the case of precocious puberty, that is to delay the onset of very early puberty where it might cause medical or psychological harm. In the case of trans, they're prescribed to delay the natural onset of puberty. These are two different things. It's not uncommon for a drug developed for one thing to also be useful for another e.g., viagra but they do have to go through rigorous testing before they're used for something else. This is particularly true where children are concerned because they're still developing and especially where there are other issues alongside the transiness. Trans children have much higher rates of ADHD and other mental problems, which adds another layer of uncertainty. All this report is saying is, hang on, the evidence to use these interventions is weak, we need to know more to be sure. It's just standard medical caution.

I think most people are not aware they have a use apart from delaying onset of puberty in transgender children.

I wonder if they would be as worried about potentially side effects if they were aware.

[Repat Van]

Apr 12, 2024 18:11:47 GMT voice said:

In a stopped clock moment mids is about right, puberty blockers have been used for ages, they were developed for pernicious puberty, and while off lable uses of drugs are not uncommon, it's less tested for.

However as we've used puberty blockers to delay early onset puberty, they've also been shown to be not that detrimental in children and are stopped with little effect when the child is old enough to commence puberty, so the idea put forward by the trasnobsesives that they are somehow irreversible is not backed up by evidence.

This is what I am confused by tbh. The reported irreversibility when used in transgender children as opposed to non transgender children.

[Repat Van]

Apr 12, 2024 18:48:46 GMT mids said:

Of course what the Cass Review doesn't tell us is why the left are so obsessed with children's genitals.

Why are you mentioning children’s genitals? Do the police need to have a look at your hard drive?

[Repat Van]

Apr 12, 2024 19:05:19 GMT happyhammerhead said:

Apr 12, 2024 16:49:28 GMT Repat Van said:

People seem especially biased about them because they are hormone driven (although I have read they are prescribed to delay onset off puberty on children which have nothing to do with transgender identities - specifically when they have abnormally early puberty. Let me try to find where I read it.)

Yes, they have their uses.

I'm not remotely obsessed with transgender. I just think that with teenagers, gender dysphoria is better treated with counselling than drugs.

Hopefully you don’t think I called you obsessed.

To be honest I don’t have a view on what is the best line of treatment for children suffering from gender dysphoria anymore than I have a view on the best form of treatment for children suffering from heart disease or leukaemia.

I’ll leave that to the medical professionals.

[happyhammerhead]

Agree, regarding heart disease and leukemia.

But they are physical conditions with known positive treatment.

Wish the NHS could be be relied on for children's transgender issues, but in my experience they are muddy waters with often poor outcomes

[mids]

Apr 13, 2024 13:24:59 GMT happyhammerhead said:

Agree, regarding heart disease and leukemia.

But they are physical conditions with known positive treatment.

Wish the NHS could be be relied on for children's transgender issues, but in my experience they are muddy waters with often poor outcomes

Also I bet any treatments used for paediatric leukemia or heart have been rigorously tested and licensed. There's always the option to use adult drugs on kids for such conditions but it's almost always done in the context of a randomised control trial.

[mids]

Apr 13, 2024 12:36:27 GMT Repat Van said:

Apr 12, 2024 18:48:46 GMT mids said:

Of course what the Cass Review doesn't tell us is why the left are so obsessed with children's genitals.

Why are you mentioning children’s genitals? Do the police need to have a look at your hard drive?

Why are you obsessed with them in your culture war?

[voice]

Apr 13, 2024 13:51:13 GMT mids said:

Apr 13, 2024 13:24:59 GMT happyhammerhead said:

Agree, regarding heart disease and leukemia.

But they are physical conditions with known positive treatment.

Wish the NHS could be be relied on for children's transgender issues, but in my experience they are muddy waters with often poor outcomes

Also I bet any treatments used for paediatric leukemia or heart have been rigorously tested and licensed. There's always the option to use adult drugs on kids for such conditions but it's almost always done in the context of a randomised control trial.

Yeah, but puberty blockers have been tested rigorously and have been used to good effect to delay puberty in non trans kids, you're allowing your trasnobsesion to cloud you to the science. You can't on one had achnowlage their efficacy when treating pernicious puberty and then pretend delaying puberty for trans kids is any way different.

That being said, while I'm not as obsessed by this as the right, I do think it shouldn't be first line treatment, but it probably has a role to play for some, I'm not interested in the black and white thinking of the trasobsessives, as we know suicide and other very detremental outcomes are very very high in trans kids who don't get the support and treatment they need.

[Repat Van]

Apr 13, 2024 13:24:59 GMT happyhammerhead said:

Agree, regarding heart disease and leukemia.

But they are physical conditions with known positive treatment.

Wish the NHS could be be relied on for children's transgender issues, but in my experience they are muddy waters with often poor outcomes

Why does the fact these are physical conditions make a difference?

Whether physical or mental I still acknowledge that I am not a medical specialist so leave it to them to determine the best form of treatment.*

















*For the most part.

[Repat Van]

Apr 13, 2024 13:52:49 GMT mids said:

Apr 13, 2024 12:36:27 GMT Repat Van said:

Why are you mentioning children’s genitals? Do the police need to have a look at your hard drive?

Why are you obsessed with them in your culture war?

Somebody call the police. Mids constant mention of children’s body parts is starting to be disturbing.

[Repat Van]

Apr 13, 2024 13:51:13 GMT mids said:

Apr 13, 2024 13:24:59 GMT happyhammerhead said:

Agree, regarding heart disease and leukemia.

But they are physical conditions with known positive treatment.

Wish the NHS could be be relied on for children's transgender issues, but in my experience they are muddy waters with often poor outcomes

Also I bet any treatments used for paediatric leukemia or heart have been rigorously tested and licensed. There's always the option to use adult drugs on kids for such conditions but it's almost always done in the context of a randomised control trial.

You don’t think beta blockers have been rigourously tested?