Caitlyn Jenner opposes trans girls in women's sports

[perrykneeham]

It's interesting to see the impact that the bullying zealots are having here. Most of the Emperor's New Clothes observations are being made by retired professional athletes. I expect this is because their careers can't be cut short, they can't be no-platformed or made PNG and their sponsorships deals can be cancelled.

[perrykneeham]

You wait till that kiwi bloke takes a medal. I think that everyone's just keeping their powder dry.

[mids]

And those here whooping about how wonderful his new clothes are are inevitably wheezy, bullied-at-school, sport fearing nancy boys.

[mids]

Jun 25, 2021 17:03:41 GMT perrykneeham said:

You wait till that kiwi bloke takes a medal. I think that everyone's just keeping their powder dry.

If not their knickers.

[Minge är en jävla besserwisser]

Jun 25, 2021 14:42:11 GMT flatandy said:

Jun 25, 2021 13:57:32 GMT reverend said:

No Andy your the one arguing biological men who want to live as women are actual women, so it's you who want's to change reality!

Perhaps you don't understand what the rules are, and have been for many years? You want the rules to change to align with your prejudices, right?

Perhaps you'd like to fill us in on what those rules are.

[flatandy]

I believe the rules are that women can compete provided they don't have excessive male hormones (or, you know, ephedrine or EPO) in their system. Which is why transgender women like that New Zealander are allowed to compete.

[perrykneeham]

That's not quite the full story, is it?

What are the rule the other way? Just askin'.

[Minge är en jävla besserwisser]

Jun 25, 2021 18:05:44 GMT flatandy said:

I believe the rules are that women can compete provided they don't have excessive male hormones (or, you know, ephedrine or EPO) in their system. Which is why transgender women like that New Zealander are allowed to compete.

I think you'll find those are guidelines.

[perrykneeham]

It turns out that far from being uncontroversial, blokes playing women is highly .... errrr .... controversial.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports

[flatandy]

Mostly because bigots try and create controversy

[perrykneeham]

Athletes and science are bigots?

[Minge är en jävla besserwisser]

Anyway if we are going by guidelines then assumably this is OK;

As a result, the new guidelines do not recommend that transwomen play women’s contact rugby on safety grounds at the international level of the game where size, strength, power and speed are crucial for both risk and performance, but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the domestic/community level of the game. Transmen are permitted to participate in men’s contact rugby.


or is it only the guidlines you agree with, a bit like the "actual competitors" rule where it's only "actual competitors I agree with" rule?

[Minge är en jävla besserwisser]

Jun 25, 2021 18:05:44 GMT flatandy said:

I believe the rules are that women can compete provided they don't have excessive male hormones (or, you know, ephedrine or EPO) in their system. Which is why transgender women like that New Zealander are allowed to compete.

And here are the world championship guidlines:

World Athletics requires that any such athlete must reduce their blood testosterone level to 5 nmol/L or lower for a six-month period before becoming eligible for track running events from 400 metres to the mile run in international competition

And the Olympic ones:

An athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.


Any particular preference from you?

Which should it be?

do please explain which rules we should be endorsing.

[perrykneeham]

Mmmmmm ..... natural woman.

[flatandy]

Jun 25, 2021 19:02:46 GMT Minge är en jävla besserwisser said:

Jun 25, 2021 18:05:44 GMT flatandy said:

I believe the rules are that women can compete provided they don't have excessive male hormones (or, you know, ephedrine or EPO) in their system. Which is why transgender women like that New Zealander are allowed to compete.

And here are the world championship guidlines:

World Athletics requires that any such athlete must reduce their blood testosterone level to 5 nmol/L or lower for a six-month period before becoming eligible for track running events from 400 metres to the mile run in international competition

And the Olympic ones:

An athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.


Any particular preference from you?

Which should it be?

do please explain which rules we should be endorsing.

So you're fine with trans women competing but just want an exact number of the blood testosterone levels?

[Minge är en jävla besserwisser]

Jun 25, 2021 19:24:44 GMT flatandy said:

Jun 25, 2021 19:02:46 GMT Minge är en jävla besserwisser said:

And here are the world championship guidlines:

World Athletics requires that any such athlete must reduce their blood testosterone level to 5 nmol/L or lower for a six-month period before becoming eligible for track running events from 400 metres to the mile run in international competition

And the Olympic ones:

An athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.


Any particular preference from you?

Which should it be?

do please explain which rules we should be endorsing.

So you're fine with trans women competing but just want an exact number of the blood testosterone levels?

It's always easy to spot when you're
all at sea because you answer a question with a question.

No, I just want you to explain the rules you are advocating.

[flatandy]

I don't endorse any one precide guideline on hormone levels any more than I know what a non-cheaty amount of caffeine is.

I am endorsing the principle that World Athletics and the IOC hold, which is that women should be allowed to compete against women.

[Minge är en jävla besserwisser]

But the RFU don't?

[perrykneeham]

Which isn't what's happening. Blokes who may or may not think they are women are competing against women. What we do know is that they are not women. Science says so.

[flatandy]

I should add that what is happening in elite sports - with at the moment a single competitor at the Olympics - is not massively important (even though it's nice to see a trans woman finally succeed at sport and overcome the prejudice).

What is much more dangerous are all the US politicians trying to stop trans girls and women participating in womens sport at all, and thus ending their participation in any sport. They're doing this in high schools and universities, and it's purely an attack on trans people and has no basis in competitive fairness. They resort to the competitive fairness argument - even though they are focused on banning trans women in mass participation sport - because they know they have no argument worth its salt.