Now is the winter of our discontent ....

[ootlg]

They could hardly rise at 10%.

[perrykneeham]

I'm sure the train operators would love to.

[ootlg]

So why don't they?

[perrykneeham]

I suppose this is another sector where there's been a huge shift in demand and which is likely to require more revenue for each passenger as time goes by.

There's a case for nationalisation, I suppose (the infrastructure already is, in effect, I think) and you have to wonder about the wisdom of Dr. Beeching's axe.

[flatandy]

The fact that the prices have to be regulated tells you that the market can't do the job that's needed here. They either need to change the model or bring it back into the public sector.

But there's also the fact that everything also costs too much for the rail operators. The implementation of new signalling equipment, say, mandated by government, that will prevent one train crash with few tens of deaths every few years, is incredibly, incredibly expensive. And unnecessary. We don't take that level of precaution for cars because each deadly car crash only takes a couple of people and is therefore not such big news. There is over-reaction and over-caution.

Still, however it works, rail should be subsidised/regulated to the point where rail tickets should not cost more than plane tickets for short-haul distances. It should never cost less to fly from London to Edinburgh or Plymouth to Manchester than it does to get the train.

[perrykneeham]

Agreed. There's something horribly wrong with a mass transport system that costs more that car ownership.

[ootlg]

Interestingly, the rail unions are anti-EU, pro-Brexit. Your buddies.

They wanted out of the EU to be able to do exactly that - renationalise (which goes against EU directives designed to encourage competition and <cough> improved services).

[perrykneeham]

I'm not sure that the EU is anti-nationalisation but it does claim (hahahaha) to be against state subsidy.

Two different things, I think.

[perrykneeham]

France
Edit
Nationalisation dates back to the 'regies' or state monopolies organized under the Ancien Régime, for example, the monopoly on tobacco sales. Communications companies France Telecom and La Poste are relics of the state postal and telecommunications monopolies.

There was a major expansion of the nationalised sector following World War II.[20] A second wave followed in 1982.

1938 Société Nationale des Chemins de Fer Français (SNCF) (originally a 51% State holding, increased to 100% in 1982)[20]
1945 Several nationalisations in France, including most important banks (Crédit lyonnais, le Comptoir national d'escompte de Paris and the Société générale among others), the schemes and companies comprising the insurance sector, and the car-maker Renault.[20] The firm was seized for Louis Renault's alleged collaboration with Nazi Germany, although this condemnation was without judgement and after his death, making this case remarkable and rare. A later judgement (1949) admitted that Renault's plant never collaborated. Renault was successful and profitable whilst nationalised and remains successful today, after having been partially privatized in 1996. France increased its 15% minority share holding in Renault to 19% in 2015.
1946 Charbonnages de France, Electricite de France (EdF), Gaz de France (GdF) nationalized as établissements public à caractère industriel et commercial
1982 François Mitterrand's proposals in the 110 Propositions for France and alliance with Jean-Pierre Chevènement's Socialist Party faction CERES, committed France to an explicitly socialist ‘rupture with capitalism’. Full nationalisation (100%): the Compagnie Générale d'Electricité, the Compagnie Générale de Constructions Téléphoniques, Pechiney-Ugine-Kuhlmann, Rhône-Poulenc, Saint-Gobain-Pont-à-Mousson, Thompson-Brandt. Partial nationalisation (51%+): Dassault, Honeywell-Bull, Matra, Roussel-Uclaf, Sacilor, Usinor. Thirty-nine banks, two financial houses, and the remaining 49% of the SNCF were also nationalised, taking the size of the French state to unprecedented levels within a year of Mitterrand's election as president in 1981.
The Paris regional transport operator, RATP Group, can also be counted as a nationalised industry.

[ootlg]

All out of date. It's the EU 4th Railway Package they're talking about. 2016.

[perrykneeham]

All out of date? Hahaha.

[perrykneeham]

"The Société nationale des chemins de fer français is France's national state-owned railway company. Founded in 1938, it operates the country's national rail traffic along with Monaco, including the TGV, on France's high-speed rail network."

[perrykneeham]

"The RATP Group, also known as the RATP or Régie autonome des transports parisiens, is a state-owned public transport operator and maintainer headquartered in Paris, France. Formed in 1949, it has its origins as the city's public transport operator."

[ootlg]

Yeah and? Did you read my last post above?

[perrykneeham]

Which one? The one where you are horribly mistaken about public ownership policy from Brussels? Geurmany's not exactly on-board either.

[ootlg]

All out of date. It's the EU 4th Railway Package they're talking about. 2016.

[perrykneeham]

So SNCF isn't state-owned?

[ootlg]

And?

[perrykneeham]

You said the EU was set against nationalisation. It clearly isn't.

[ootlg]

If you read the EU 4th Railway Package you might understand why the rail unions are anti-EU, which was the point you appear to be avoiding like the plague. I realise it must gall to hear that these thugs to which you have referred are of your own ilk, but try to be less subjective.