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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 14:29:01 GMT
That is precisely what I was talking about.
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voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,236
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Post by voice on Dec 21, 2022 18:45:52 GMT
I've been listening to Tories my entire aduly life saying "the problem is not low pay, if only we created efficiencies and fixed the broken NHS it will be fine" though given they've been in power from 1979 to 2022 apart from 12 years you have wonder at their inability, or more accurately their unwillingness to do so. Also for all the failures of the Blair gov, they did Healthcare very well, increased staffing tremendously through Nurse 2000 and other similar programs, the GP contract bolstered GB numbers and reverced the decline, improved services and training. This is in stark contrast to the 30 years of run down slash and burn tory policy.
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 18:51:28 GMT
30 years? Really?
Also, Labour mortgaged the NHS. PFI was their unsustainable flimflam. Labour basically paid for you to f**k off overseas, so your objectivity and credibility are massively compromised.
Get your hand off your cock for one moment. It's religious devotion nothing more.
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 19:09:33 GMT
Who introduced privatisation into the NHS?
Labour.
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 19:13:23 GMT
NHS Foundation Trusts?
Labour.
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voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,236
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Post by voice on Dec 21, 2022 19:37:01 GMT
Who introduced privatisation into the NHS? Labour. Started in the late 80s ramped up in the early 90s when the Tories sold off laundry, cleaning and food services, leading to spikes in ABX resistance as standards dropped over night. Though the run down of staffing started in 1979, by 1997 there are a third less beds and nursing was half what it had been. Though as has been pointed out repeatedly, it's tory principle to break the NHS and run it down so it can sold off. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 19:40:04 GMT
100 hospitals PFI'd under Labour. Won't be your kids paying for that, of course.
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 19:41:37 GMT
Of course, the first privatisation of the NHS was a Labour policy. Is it privatised yet? No.
You can't have it both ways.
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voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,236
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Post by voice on Dec 21, 2022 19:50:52 GMT
Well after 18 years of refusing to invest in hospital infrastructure due yo willfully running services into the ground there was a massive need, I said recently PPI was a way to stop tax rises and not ideal, but it's hard to repair in a few years the damage done over 18, and while PPI will take decades to repay, at least they borrowed at very low rates.
That being said, had the money been raised through taxation you lot would still be bleating about high levels of tax and spend. Basicly nothing Labour did to repaire the damage would have been acceptable as you don't want the NHS repaired, you want it gone.
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 21, 2022 20:07:00 GMT
A this point, it feels like the population are losing sympathy with the strikers, despite the best efforts of the BBC and the rest of the lefty media. People seem to support the strikes but are lukewarm about the demands. The claims by the various unions that they are concerned about public safety are seen for what they are and there's a general feeling that the unions are losing because the government won't engage where they don't need to. Really? Seems to still be full support for the strikers everywhere I turn especially striking nurses.) |
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 21, 2022 20:08:38 GMT
I think there have been a couple of factors in dymanic tension here. Firstly, I think that most reasonable people support people's right to strike and assume that they have a bona fide grievance. Secondly, there is considerable amount of knee-jerk, nanny sympathy for all things NHS. Both seem to be in decline. It’s not “knee-jerk sympathy for the NHS”. It’s “seeing the value in nursing and thinking nurses should be paid properly less we continue to lose them at an increasing rate.” |
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 21, 2022 20:09:59 GMT
I'm not sure that any of those problems can be fixed by offering some employees more wages. Maybe if we fixed the organisations they would be more effective and efficient so they could afford to offer higher salaries and/or better conditions, thereby being more attractive as employers. Maybe we could also stop the reliance on "cheap"* overseas labour. *only "cheap" if the employer is not responsible for the full cost of employment or wider social costs. They have to “rely” on that overseas labour because those roles are not being sufficiently filled by local people. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 21:06:16 GMT
A this point, it feels like the population are losing sympathy with the strikers, despite the best efforts of the BBC and the rest of the lefty media. People seem to support the strikes but are lukewarm about the demands. The claims by the various unions that they are concerned about public safety are seen for what they are and there's a general feeling that the unions are losing because the government won't engage where they don't need to. Really? Seems to still be full support for the strikers everywhere I turn especially striking nurses.) Nope. Full? It was never that. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 21:07:07 GMT
I'm not sure that any of those problems can be fixed by offering some employees more wages. Maybe if we fixed the organisations they would be more effective and efficient so they could afford to offer higher salaries and/or better conditions, thereby being more attractive as employers. Maybe we could also stop the reliance on "cheap"* overseas labour. *only "cheap" if the employer is not responsible for the full cost of employment or wider social costs. They have to “rely” on that overseas labour because those roles are not being sufficiently filled by local people. And why is that, do you think? |
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 21, 2022 21:08:15 GMT
I think there have been a couple of factors in dymanic tension here. Firstly, I think that most reasonable people support people's right to strike and assume that they have a bona fide grievance. Secondly, there is considerable amount of knee-jerk, nanny sympathy for all things NHS. Both seem to be in decline. It’s not “knee-jerk sympathy for the NHS”. It’s “seeing the value in nursing and thinking nurses should be paid properly less we continue to lose them at an increasing rate.” All made up. Subjective cockrot. Do try and have a thought all of your own. |
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ootlg
New Member
Posts: 10,381
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Post by ootlg on Dec 22, 2022 9:11:08 GMT
You appear to be living on another planet. Most of the country is now aware that the Tories have badly screwed up, that the strikes are a result of Tory policy and that worsening living conditions are symptomatic of their mismanagement. They may not be worsening for Baloo of course as he appears to reside in that I'm Alright Jack world of the smugly privileged, but he can rest assured that the overall view of life in the UK right now is far from cosy.
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ootlg
New Member
Posts: 10,381
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Post by ootlg on Dec 22, 2022 9:12:06 GMT
Cosy?
Try rosy.
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 22, 2022 9:42:17 GMT
You appear to be living on another planet. Most of the country is now aware that the Tories have badly screwed up, that the strikes are a result of Tory policy and that worsening living conditions are symptomatic of their mismanagement. They may not be worsening for Baloo of course as he appears to reside in that I'm Alright Jack world of the smugly privileged, but he can rest assured that the overall view of life in the UK right now is far from cosy. Haha. Boomervision from France. Clueless. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 22, 2022 9:42:44 GMT
Beumervision.
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Post by perrykneeham on Dec 22, 2022 12:30:46 GMT
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