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Post by Repat Van on Jan 3, 2023 10:39:53 GMT
I know plenty of my kids' generation who have bought houses and have started pension plans. They seem to be doing just fine. Anecdote =\= data. |
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Jan 3, 2023 10:43:38 GMT
Are millenials bucking the trend though? What's the evidence to show this? The logic is that we all want to rip up the rule book when young but get older and wiser as we learn that rules were made for a reason. I don't see how politics has much of a bearing on this. They've made a massive leap from philosophy to politics in the article - what's left of it. Check out the article. Paywall. And to repeat - the writer's conflating different issues, probably for political reasons. I know millenials of all stripe and, guess what, they're all different. Wisdom isn't necessarily tied to politics. |
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Jan 3, 2023 10:47:01 GMT
Funny how the blind claim to be the woke.
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Post by Repat Van on Jan 3, 2023 10:49:43 GMT
Paywall. And to repeat - the writer's conflating different issues, probably for political reasons. I know millenials of all stripe and, guess what, they're all different. Wisdom isn't necessarily tied to politics. If you can’t read it how can you comment on what the author is “conflating”? |
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Jan 3, 2023 10:51:22 GMT
I read the bit you pasted. Unless of course that's drivel.
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Post by Repat Van on Jan 3, 2023 10:52:52 GMT
I read the bit you pasted. Unless of course that's drivel. So you haven’t read the full thing. It clearly highlights the evidence you questioned. Clear your cache and you will be able to read it. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Jan 3, 2023 10:57:58 GMT
I suspect that all the kids have been set back in their maturing process by working from home during Covid.
Lack of exposure to real world conditions has stunted their development.
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Post by perrykneeham on Jan 3, 2023 10:58:36 GMT
I know plenty of my kids' generation who have bought houses and have started pension plans. They seem to be doing just fine. Anecdote =\= data. It's not an anecdote. It's a fact. |
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Jan 3, 2023 12:30:45 GMT
I read the bit you pasted. Unless of course that's drivel. So you haven’t read the full thing. It clearly highlights the evidence you questioned. Clear your cache and you will be able to read it. Subscribe to read this article. |
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flatandy
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Post by flatandy on Jan 3, 2023 12:37:52 GMT
I know plenty of my kids' generation who have bought houses and have started pension plans. They seem to be doing just fine. Yes. But we’re looking at averages on a population level, not at individuals. Some 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 year olds are altruistic and decent and not conservative scum. As a population, though, they vote comparatively conservatively. As a population, under 45s are having a harder time buying houses. Although I do wonder how many of your kids’ generation house buyers have done so without assistance from family money. (Also, I said state pension; obviously everyone is going to have a private pension by the time people even my age retire, because there’s no alternative) |
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flatandy
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Post by flatandy on Jan 3, 2023 12:49:56 GMT
Equally, it’s possible that anyone born after 1980 knows that they can never buy a house and won’t get a state pension and knows the system is screwed and knows it needs fixing desperately. So voting to entrench the current system might seem like a terrible idea. Also, of course, the idiot conservatives have doubled down on culture war sh*t. So even if the millennials wanted lower taxes they won’t vote for hatred and spite and nastiness, because they actually grew up with people who weren’t white and straight and cis. The second point is actually an excellent one and it’s interesting how in so many Western countries Conservatives do so badly with immigrants / ethnic minorities giver just how conservative these populations actually tend to be. Canada is the only one that saw sense but UK and especially US conservatives have not figured out that even if people may agree with you on fiscal policy and some social issues doubling down on hatred towards them will dissuade them from voting for you. I think even this is too narrow. It’s true that once Conservatives hate dark skinned people it’s hard to imagine dark skinned people voting for them even if dark skinned people tend to be more religious and culturally conservative on many issues. But even most white kids these days have grown up knowing their friends are gay or non-binary (or at least were undecided about their gender status while young) or whatever. They’ve grown up in a world where women don’t just stay chained to the sink and stove. If the low-tax party is all about hammering the gays and transes, about removing bodily autonomy from women, about traditional male values (which, let’s be honest, many immigrant communities may actually support), basically about making life horrible for the friends of these white kids even if these white kids are straight and cis, it’s easy to imagine that the white kids are never going to vote for the low tax party even if the white kids would prefer low taxes. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Jan 3, 2023 12:57:34 GMT
I know plenty of my kids' generation who have bought houses and have started pension plans. They seem to be doing just fine. Yes. But we’re looking at averages on a population level, not at individuals. Some 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 year olds are altruistic and decent and not conservative scum. As a population, though, they vote comparatively conservatively. As a population, under 45s are having a harder time buying houses. Although I do wonder how many of your kids’ generation house buyers have done so without assistance from family money. (Also, I said state pension; obviously everyone is going to have a private pension by the time people even my age retire, because there’s no alternative) Well, State Pensions are already a thing of the past really. We all have to kick in to a fund now. Probably more sensible anyway. |
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Jan 3, 2023 12:58:09 GMT
Why are you obsessed with minority groups? Serious question.
Twandy obv.
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flatandy
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Post by flatandy on Jan 3, 2023 13:07:50 GMT
When political movements pick on minority groups, people who know and like members of those minority groups are less likely to vote for that political movement, OOTLG. That seems to be one of the drivers of the kids being less conservative. One of the things that makes the idiom about “opening your first paycheck and seeing the tax taken out” less likely to remain true.
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Jan 3, 2023 13:13:00 GMT
You're suggesting that the Conservative party picks on minority groups? I'm no Tory but I'm trying to find the logic here.
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flatandy
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Post by flatandy on Jan 3, 2023 14:47:15 GMT
Are you suggesting they don't? The UK Conservative Party definitely does, and has been increasingly doing so in recent years following the conservative movement in general. It's pathetically following the right-wing UK media, which itself is pathetically following the US Republican Party, which is itself following the trolly bloggers and talking heads of the US right-wing media. You just need to look at the comments on these pages about muslims or black people or gays or trans people or immigrants or jews or whichever minority group to know that it's now the core of right-wingery. They only marginally care about tax rates and instead mostly care about the Culture War nonsense. It gets clicks. It gets them to think they've pwned teh left.
It would also explain why they're losing support of people who should by this point - according to the theory - be becoming selfish, self-absorbed arseholes only concerned about preserving their property prices and making sure their money isn't being redistributed to people who need it more.
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mids
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Post by mids on Jan 3, 2023 14:51:55 GMT
Are the left still going on about their culture wars that they started? Guys, it's 2023.
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Post by Repat Van on Jan 3, 2023 14:52:55 GMT
So you haven’t read the full thing. It clearly highlights the evidence you questioned. Clear your cache and you will be able to read it. Subscribe to read this article. Clear your cache. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jan 3, 2023 14:54:30 GMT
You're suggesting that the Conservative party picks on minority groups? I'm no Tory but I'm trying to find the logic here. Conservatives in general do. No matter where they’re located. Canada appears to be the one exception where they actually realised immies are more likely to espouse conservative values and targeted them as a voter pool. I have read numerous articles that suggest, for example, African-American voters are far more conservative than their voting record suggests. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jan 3, 2023 15:01:33 GMT
The second point is actually an excellent one and it’s interesting how in so many Western countries Conservatives do so badly with immigrants / ethnic minorities giver just how conservative these populations actually tend to be. Canada is the only one that saw sense but UK and especially US conservatives have not figured out that even if people may agree with you on fiscal policy and some social issues doubling down on hatred towards them will dissuade them from voting for you. I think even this is too narrow. It’s true that once Conservatives hate dark skinned people it’s hard to imagine dark skinned people voting for them even if dark skinned people tend to be more religious and culturally conservative on many issues. But even most white kids these days have grown up knowing their friends are gay or non-binary (or at least were undecided about their gender status while young) or whatever. They’ve grown up in a world where women don’t just stay chained to the sink and stove. If the low-tax party is all about hammering the gays and transes, about removing bodily autonomy from women, about traditional male values (which, let’s be honest, many immigrant communities may actually support), basically about making life horrible for the friends of these white kids even if these white kids are straight and cis, it’s easy to imagine that the white kids are never going to vote for the low tax party even if the white kids would prefer low taxes. This makes me think of US conservative commentators losing their sh*t over the fact that single women are more likely to vote Democrat… The language they use to object to that is not likely to change that fact anytime soon. |
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