The Meldrew 'I don't believe it' thread.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 3, 2024 17:52:25 GMT Repat Van said:

Dec 12, 2023 18:34:08 GMT perrykneeham said:

To a considerable extent, the teaching profession has been complicit in creating the conditions that make teaching such a bloody awful job. It's an interesting mix of piety, naivity, incompetence and self interest.

Keeping kids in education until 18 is mental.
The legal requirement for mixed ability classes is mental.
The standards of attainment are pitifully low (TBF they always were).
The amount of teaching per day is shockingly low.
The doctrine of self-led, research instead of "talk and chalk" is an offence to common sense, but oh-so trendy.

When did they phase out teaching sets / streams in classes?

I don’t have that big an issue with kids being required to stay in education till adult. Although it would be better if there were actual clear options for those wishing to leave school at 16. I had long forgotten it was ever 16.

I couldn't tell you when streaming was phased out, only that it is strictly forbidden (but practiced covertly) in state schools in England. Towards the end of my foray into teaching, I became aware that there was a cohort of taller better looking kids being taught A-level Geography and I had never met any of them. I was allowed to practice on those who were there by happenstance (and whose chances I couldn't spoil by my inexperience, I guess).

[perrykneeham]

Jan 3, 2024 17:53:08 GMT Repat Van said:

Jan 3, 2024 17:40:10 GMT perrykneeham said:

As I was walking into M&S this afternoon, a bloke sort of got in my way. He was walking towards me and reading a copy of The Sun. How very 1970s. I got to wondering who reads a hard copy of a newspaper these days?

Also, what kind of Andy Capp still walks around reading The Sun in public?

My mom buys a hard copy of a news paper every day. The Mirror.

It used to be the (*vomits*) Daily Mail and The Mirror but she has finally seen the light.

For the elderly, I can see that it5what they're comfortable with, and it gets them out of the house.

[Repat Van]

Jan 3, 2024 18:01:12 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jan 3, 2024 17:53:08 GMT Repat Van said:

My mom buys a hard copy of a news paper every day. The Mirror.

It used to be the (*vomits*) Daily Mail and The Mirror but she has finally seen the light.

For the elderly, I can see that it5what they're comfortable with, and it gets them out of the house.

Her job gets her out the house.

[perrykneeham]

Paperboy?

[perrykneeham]

Here's an example of people not checking that what the computer says is matched by reality on the ground ....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67874607

[Repat Van]

Jan 3, 2024 18:47:55 GMT perrykneeham said:

Paperboy?

No. Office worker.

[mids]

Those carpet tiles won't hoover themselves.

[mids]

Jan 3, 2024 19:00:10 GMT perrykneeham said:

Here's an example of people not checking that what the computer says is matched by reality on the ground ....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67874607

I bet the coastguard people were working their arses off. Quite possibly exhausted.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 3, 2024 19:15:53 GMT Repat Van said:

Jan 3, 2024 18:47:55 GMT perrykneeham said:

Paperboy?

No. Office worker.

Of course. Corporate.

[flatandy]

Jan 3, 2024 17:58:51 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jan 3, 2024 17:52:25 GMT Repat Van said:

When did they phase out teaching sets / streams in classes?

I don’t have that big an issue with kids being required to stay in education till adult. Although it would be better if there were actual clear options for those wishing to leave school at 16. I had long forgotten it was ever 16.

I couldn't tell you when streaming was phased out, only that it is strictly forbidden (but practiced covertly) in state schools in England. Towards the end of my foray into teaching, I became aware that there was a cohort of taller better looking kids being taught A-level Geography and I had never met any of them. I was allowed to practice on those who were there by happenstance (and whose chances I couldn't spoil by my inexperience, I guess).

Is setting as well as streaming banned?

I can see why streaming wouldn't be allowed. People (not mentioning any names) might be good at mathsy sciency stuff but absolute dogshit at artsy writingy stuff. Some people aren't good at everything but putting them into the thickoes stream would be very bad for them broadly.

But setting - letting the kids who're sh*t hot at maths stay working on the sh*t-hot maths stuff, while staying with team Windowlicker in art - makes quite a lot more sense.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 3, 2024 19:57:40 GMT flatandy said:

Jan 3, 2024 17:58:51 GMT perrykneeham said:

I couldn't tell you when streaming was phased out, only that it is strictly forbidden (but practiced covertly) in state schools in England. Towards the end of my foray into teaching, I became aware that there was a cohort of taller better looking kids being taught A-level Geography and I had never met any of them. I was allowed to practice on those who were there by happenstance (and whose chances I couldn't spoil by my inexperience, I guess).

Is setting as well as streaming banned?

I can see why streaming wouldn't be allowed. People (not mentioning any names) might be good at mathsy sciency stuff but absolute dogshit at artsy writingy stuff. Some people aren't good at everything but putting them into the thickoes stream would be very bad for them broadly.

But setting - letting the kids who're sh*t hot at maths stay working on the sh*t-hot maths stuff, while staying with team Windowlicker in art - makes quite a lot more sense.

Both are, technically, unacceptable. Your "sets" are within the same cohort and the lesson plan must address each. It is often explained using a Nando's spiciness index, incredibly enough.

[flatandy]

That sounds screwed up and unhelpful for anyone. Is there an explanation for it?

[voice]

13 years of tory misrule I'd imagine.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 3, 2024 23:42:41 GMT flatandy said:

That sounds screwed up and unhelpful for anyone. Is there an explanation for it?

Highly convenient pedagogical theory. There's this theory that children learn best by directed research, rather than "chalk and talk". Maybe, some of them, perhaps. In practice, it means that they teacher frameworks the learning and leaves them to it. It's utter f**k**g nonsense of course, but it suits the teachers and the government. I always ask what other countries do, especially the successful ones.

[mids]

A friend of mine is a fairly big cheese in the world of education, particularly with excluded types. He's very firmly of the opinion that a substantial proportion of children shouldn't be at school past being able to read write and do sums (to a high standard). They're not suited to the classroom environment so it makes them miserable and this is a disruption in the classroom. Of course, there needs to be something along the lines of apprenticeships or the like for them (large numbers of them) for the idea to work.

[perrykneeham]

I should add that I was told, on more than one occasion, that the role of the teacher was not to presume to be the person imparting one's knowledge, but to be the facilitator of learning.

It was quite gobsmacking.

[mids]

Is that because children are precious sponges, aching to soak up information and knowledge under the gentle guidance of the matriarchal hand of the NUT?

[perrykneeham]

Jan 4, 2024 9:29:36 GMT mids said:

Is that because children are precious sponges, aching to soak up information and knowledge under the gentle guidance of the matriarchal hand of the NUT?

Well, quite the opposite. The kids are pretty much expected to educated themelselves while the Teacher researches their ethic, social and welfare background and tries to build a SEN case for why they're not learning anything. SEN conditions include such things as low prior attainment, disability, English isn't first language (even if they are completely fluent) looked after status, free school meals, parental unemployment, etc.

[Repat Van]

Jan 4, 2024 9:08:04 GMT mids said:

A friend of mine is a fairly big cheese in the world of education, particularly with excluded types. He's very firmly of the opinion that a substantial proportion of children shouldn't be at school past being able to read write and do sums (to a high standard). They're not suited to the classroom environment so it makes them miserable and this is a disruption in the classroom. Of course, there needs to be something along the lines of apprenticeships or the like for them (large numbers of them) for the idea to work.

This could be an option as long as it is easy for them to transfer back to an academic environment later should they choose. Writing children off early because at 12 they could or keep still (I.e the German method) seems harsh.

[Repat Van]

Jan 4, 2024 10:14:51 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jan 4, 2024 9:29:36 GMT mids said:

Is that because children are precious sponges, aching to soak up information and knowledge under the gentle guidance of the matriarchal hand of the NUT?

Well, quite the opposite. The kids are pretty much expected to educated themelselves while the Teacher researches their ethic, social and welfare background and tries to build a SEN case for why they're not learning anything. SEN conditions include such things as low prior attainment, disability, English isn't first language (even if they are completely fluent) looked after status, free school meals, parental unemployment, etc.

Is this school specific?

My friend is a maths teacher at secondary level and this absolutely does not match what she describes when she talks about work.