The Meldrew 'I don't believe it' thread.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 4, 2024 11:09:52 GMT Repat Van said:

Jan 4, 2024 10:14:51 GMT perrykneeham said:

Well, quite the opposite. The kids are pretty much expected to educated themelselves while the Teacher researches their ethic, social and welfare background and tries to build a SEN case for why they're not learning anything. SEN conditions include such things as low prior attainment, disability, English isn't first language (even if they are completely fluent) looked after status, free school meals, parental unemployment, etc.

Is this school specific?

My friend is a maths teacher at secondary level and this absolutely does not match what she describes when she talks about work.

We were told that this is the requirement of the DofE, so presumably all state schools in England. It's certainly what we were instructed to do, and was borne out by the evidence of clever kids in tears of frustration at being penned in with the thick and the disengaged (many of whom were probably perfectly capable, but in despair).

[perrykneeham]

Ah! Actually, you've just reminded me that there are exceptions: for core skills subjects i.e. maths and English.

[moggyonspeed]

The big clue as to what teachers should be doing lies in their job title. All this data collection and form filling eats into teaching time. It also seems to be predicated on the notion that all this information will provide suitable reasons and excuses for non-performance of certain kids if and when. How depressing.

I don't know about you lot, but I went to school way back when with some kids who, regardless of their background, just wanted to lark about at the back of the class and not learn. All the demographic analysis in the world wouldn't have prevented this so, because there is even more to distract young people these days (mobile technology, apps, social media etc.) I think to hit on pupil demographics first is hugely misguided.

[perrykneeham]

That's about the size of it. There's good and bad, and I expect that most schools do what they can for the kids who want to get on.

[voice]

So I was right, 13 years of Tory ineptitude has ruined the British education system.

[flatandy]

Jan 4, 2024 9:08:04 GMT mids said:

Of course, there needs to be something along the lines of apprenticeships or the like for them (large numbers of them) for the idea to work.

It's not clear that those kinds of jobs exist in the numbers needed. Sure, we need a few air con engineers, but most jobs these days seem to either require fairly high levels of attainment or almost zero. You don't need apprenticeships in toilet cleaning, say.

[Repat Van]

Jan 4, 2024 12:05:30 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jan 4, 2024 11:09:52 GMT Repat Van said:

Is this school specific?

My friend is a maths teacher at secondary level and this absolutely does not match what she describes when she talks about work.

We were told that this is the requirement of the DofE, so presumably all state schools in England. It's certainly what we were instructed to do, and was borne out by the evidence of clever kids in tears of frustration at being penned in with the thick and the disengaged (many of whom were probably perfectly capable, but in despair).

Oh I wasn’t talking about the lack of sets but the rest of it about pupil led learning.

[Repat Van]

Jan 4, 2024 12:06:40 GMT perrykneeham said:

Ah! Actually, you've just reminded me that there are exceptions: for core skills subjects i.e. maths and English.

Ah - that’s why she has never mentioned it.

[flatandy]

Jan 4, 2024 9:02:00 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jan 3, 2024 23:42:41 GMT flatandy said:

That sounds screwed up and unhelpful for anyone. Is there an explanation for it?

Highly convenient pedagogical theory. There's this theory that children learn best by directed research, rather than "chalk and talk". Maybe, some of them, perhaps. In practice, it means that they teacher frameworks the learning and leaves them to it. It's utter f**k**g nonsense of course, but it suits the teachers and the government. I always ask what other countries do, especially the successful ones.

I'm not sure that one follows from the other.

Even if the pedagogical "let the kids learn by research rather than getting told stuff" philosophy holds true* why does that preclude keeping the kids who're good at maths together and putting the thickoes together?


*and, by the way, I think in a lot of cases it is a better way of learning - finding out for yourself can often make you more engaged than just by writing tables of French verb tenses (which I was perfectly good at but was utterly useless for being able to speak French).

[Repat Van]

Jan 4, 2024 13:25:11 GMT moggyonspeed said:

The big clue as to what teachers should be doing lies in their job title. All this data collection and form filling eats into teaching time. It also seems to be predicated on the notion that all this information will provide suitable reasons and excuses for non-performance of certain kids if and when. How depressing.

I don't know about you lot, but I went to school way back when with some kids who, regardless of their background, just wanted to lark about at the back of the class and not learn. All the demographic analysis in the world wouldn't have prevented this so, because there is even more to distract young people these days (mobile technology, apps, social media etc.) I think to hit on pupil demographics first is hugely misguided.

Same. But also some of the kids who just wanted to lark about were not like that consistently throughout their entire school year.

They maybe good students, then spend a year or two messing about then back to being good students. I may or may not have been one of them *cough*.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 4, 2024 15:34:59 GMT voice said:

So I was right, 13 years of Tory ineptitude has ruined the British education system.

I'm not sure when it started, but mixed ability classes have been around for a long time. It's a Labour thing.

[perrykneeham]

Jan 4, 2024 15:41:48 GMT Repat Van said:

Jan 4, 2024 12:05:30 GMT perrykneeham said:

We were told that this is the requirement of the DofE, so presumably all state schools in England. It's certainly what we were instructed to do, and was borne out by the evidence of clever kids in tears of frustration at being penned in with the thick and the disengaged (many of whom were probably perfectly capable, but in despair).

Oh I wasn’t talking about the lack of sets but the rest of it about pupil led learning.

I think that, in Maths and English at least, the scope for scaffolds learning is much less.

[voice]

So despite the DoE being run by Tories for 13 years it's Labour's fault the system is f**k*d. The Tories are so incompetent they haven't fixed this, so called, Labour problem, how utterly shite must they be that despite being in power for over a decade they've just made no improvements and in fact have destroyed the UK education system.

Good job they'll be out on their ear by year's end eh?

[mids]

The blob.

[voice]

Yeah, him especially, Bloby Bojo was possibly the laziest inept tosser to ever be PM.

[mids]

Your sides.

[mids]

Why are children watching this? The left, oh the left? This is your sort of thing. Can you explain why?

[moggyonspeed]

As it currently stands there are 24 Tory MPs in the Commons who are openly LBGTQ+, compared to 21 Labour MPs so, yet again, your pseudo-statement-posing-as-a-question is demonstrably b*ll*cks.

But yes, I deplore any such overtly sexualised demonstrations in front of children - on that we can, at least, agree.

[mids]

Hahaha, brilliant. You can't bring yourself to just agree. What a fucking child. Also, what the hell does the number of LGB  MPs (I doubt there are any of the other letters in Parliament) have to do with this? Anything?  Anything at all?

[moggyonspeed]

Just two things for you to try ...

Stop. And think.