Hamas - Missing In Action

[bertrus2]

playing hide and seek behind the civilian population, then the Israelis would have known where they were.
Oh, by the way, if you're talking about their leaders, try looking in Damascus.

Victor Meldrew

Haven't you wondered why there are so many Arabs crammed into this narrow coastal strip. Like impoverished people elsewhere, they breed like rabbits is a reason why there are 1.5 million of them. But their imprisonment in this small area is due to the fact that their famillies were ethnically cleansed by Israel from the areas further north in what has now become Israel.

If you wonder where Hamas leaders are, the answer is that many of them are in Israeli jails. How very strange that the leader of Hamas should be in Damascus, rather than remaining in Palestine to await his turn to be murdered by the Israelis.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 22, 2009 15:53:05 GMT bertrus2 said:

How very strange that the leader of Hamas should be in Damascus, rather than remaining in Palestine to await his turn to be murdered by the Israelis.

Not strange at all. It is the way of all politicians, but particularly deranged nutbags with a god complex, to make sure they are well away from the carnage they inflict on their electorate.

[Victor Meldrew]

Exactly, vhw. It's what these nutcase leaders do when they know that the trouble they cause could actually hurt them and their families.

In this case, he gives his blessing to the rockets being fired into Israel, knows full well that Israel is hardly the sort of Country to sit back and watch it happen, and meanwhile he swans off to a safe haven in Damascus, where the Government will take in anyone who claims to be a sworn enemy of Israel. How long before Syria starts another campaign pressing for the return of the Golan Heights? Yeah right, lads. ;D

This may be a bit radical for you, bert, but give it a try. Rather than seeking a safe house because Hamas' actions were bound to cause the sort of response they got, they could have tried this tactic. Give up their claim to destroying the State of Israel, cease firing rockets, and meet with Israeli leaders, with a view to ending the hostilities. If both sides could finally break down the barrier known as suspicion, maybe, just maybe, it could work. It could take about a decade or so to achieve, but you've got to start somewhere. And guess what? If thye'd gone down thet road, there would be another 1.300 or so Palestinians alive who aren't here today.

[bertrus2]

It is the way of all politicians, but particularly deranged nutbags with a god complex, to make sure they are well away from the carnage they inflict on their electorate.

Tzipi Livni's aspirations for a God-given land for God's own people is quite as mad as the notion of a Muslim state.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Indeed. Also, Thomas Bodström has been reported over his alleged involvement in the CIA deportation of Egyptian nationals who were later tortured. And if you click here:

allrecipes.com/HowTo/Chocolate-Pecan-Pie-Video/Detail.aspx

you get a recipe for choclate pecan pie.

These two facts are every bit as relevant to the topic in hand as your last post and I think the second one might even be useful to somebody.

[bertrus2]

Give up their claim to destroying the State of Israel, cease firing rockets, and meet with Israeli leaders, with a view to ending the hostilities.

Give up their campaign to wipe Palestine off the map, cease firing missiles and meet with Palestinian leaders with a view to accepting international law and the moral principles that underlie it.

Haven't you noticed that the people of the Occupied Palestinian Territories are the families of those ethnically cleansed from Israel? Don't you understand that Israel's project is to wipe Palestine off the map?

[bertrus2]

These two facts are every bit as relevant to the topic in hand as your last post

As relevant as in a completely different context.

If you can't take on board that Tzipi Livni's parents were Zionist terrorists, that she was an officer in the Israeli army and a Mossad operative and has extremist views on God's gift of Arab Palestine to the Chosen People, you can't argue the issue, except by using double standards.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

I don't actually care if her parents were Satan and Margaret Thatcher, it has no bearing on Hamas firing rockets at Israel, provoking a response and buggering off to hide while "their people" are slaughtered.

[Marshall]

Jan 22, 2009 18:22:08 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

I don't actually care if her parents were Satan and Margaret Thatcher, it has no bearing on Hamas firing rockets at Israel, provoking a response and buggering off to hide while "their people" are slaughtered.

That's the crux of it, isn't it? I'll grant that Israel has acted heavy handed in response. So what is Hamas trying to gain by firing rockets into Israel? What could they possibly gain from it?
Nothing, other than provoking a heavy-handed response. Their idea of a diplomatic solution is to play the victim of the evil jews and they won't hesitate to sacrifice Palestinian lives to do so.

[lawrence]

LMAO ! VHW , your on a roll today !

[lawrence]

Oh ! How incredibly shocking this must be to some of our more naive pro Hamas posters ! Surely the Arabs wouldn't lie about the number of casualties , would they ?
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3660423,00.html

[newyorker]

Hamas lie? Dey wud nevah!


Gazan doctor says death toll inflated

Physician at Gaza's Shifa Hospital tells Italian newspaper number of dead in Israeli offensive 'stands at no more than 500 or 600, most of them youths recruited to Hamas' ranks'. Senior Palestinian Health Ministry official denies claims, IDF estimate on 1,200 casualties in Strip remains unchanged

[puffin]

Weren't the figures of dead and injured issued by UNRA, not Hamas?

Who are we to believe. One Physician or UNRA officials? They issued daily figures that can't possibly equate with that Physician's numbers. Maybe he's talking about the numbers he saw in that one Hospital?
Most of the dead would never have arrived there.

I'm sure there will be a none Israeli, none Palestinian count in due course...when they have finished recovering the corpses from below the rubble. I think I'll wait for the official figures.

[bertrus2]

It may surprise you to learn that Israel also has innocent civilians among its population, and they too deserve to live without fear of attack.

That's taken for granted. The answer was for Israel to evacuate the most vulnerable people to safer areas, stop the economic strangulation of the Occupied Territories and reach agreement with Hamas on a new cease-fire. Israel preferred the iron fist.

[bertrus2]

Israeli military air strikes and artillery attacks on the Gaza Strip during the last few days have killed over 100 Palestinians, including dozens of children and other civilian bystanders. Three Israelis – a civilian killed by a rocket fired by a Palestinian armed group on 27 February and two soldiers – were also killed.

The latest onslaught is nothing new, just more intense to boost the popularity of the government for the upcoming elections. The report above is from Amnesty International on March 3 2008 .

[reverend]

Jan 22, 2009 21:17:06 GMT bertrus2 said:

It may surprise you to learn that Israel also has innocent civilians among its population, and they too deserve to live without fear of attack.

That's taken for granted. The answer was for Israel to evacuate the most vulnerable people to safer areas, stop the economic strangulation of the Occupied Territories and reach agreement with Hamas on a new cease-fire. Israel preferred the iron fist.

If you want an example of how utterly clueless bert is here it is!
tell you what bert work out how far hamas rockets go on a map and then see how idiotic your suggestion is!
then you can try and figure out why the border crossings were closed in the first place, (clues---hamas-rockets-mortars).

[Marshall]

George Mitchell, just named special envoy to the Middle East today, related this story in his opening remarks:

The secretary mentioned Northern Ireland. There, recently longtime enemies came together to form a power-sharing government to bring to an end the ancient conflict known as the Troubles. This was almost 800 years after Britain began its domination of Ireland, 86 years after the petition of Ireland, 38 years after the British army formally began its most recent mission in Ireland, 11 years after the peace talks began, and 9 years after a peace agreement was signed.

As an aside, just recently, I spoke in Jerusalem, and I mentioned the 800 years. And afterward, an elderly gentleman came up to me, and he said, "Did you say 800 years?" I said, "Yes, 800." He repeated the number again. I repeated it again. He said, "Ah, such a recent argument. No wonder you settled it."

[bertrus2]

tell you what bert work out how far hamas rockets go on a map and then see how idiotic your suggestion is! then you can try and figure out why the border crossings were closed in the first place, (clues---hamas-rockets-mortars).

The obvious answer was for Israel to evacuate the most vulnerable from the border areas to reduce deaths from 10 or whatever they were in the last ten years, previous to the latest upsurge of violence.

When border crossings are closed, Palestinians starve and die from lack of food and medical treatment. Why the Palestinians, whose families were ethnically cleansed from what is now Israel, and are imprisoned in the narrow coastal strip that is now Gaza, should be subject to genocidal policies of the Israeli government is unclear, unless you apply double standards.

[reverend]

if the arabs were ethnically cleansed, how come there are so many Israeli arabs and no palestinian jews?

in fact why am i bothering debating with a racist clown?

[newyorker]

Jan 22, 2009 18:06:57 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

allrecipes.com/HowTo/Chocolate-Pecan-Pie-Video/Detail.aspx

you get a recipe for choclate pecan pie.

VHW, you're killin' me with that pecan pie video, I'm on a hardcore diet trying to get the bodyfat percentage into the single digits and get the abs hooked up. Haven't seen tasty food since December, and I frikkin' LOVE pecan pie! Probably going to dream about it tonight, then in my dream I'm going to be all pissed off at myself for going off my diet, then I'll wake up and be relieved, but for a fraction of a second I'll worry if the calories carried over from the pie in my dream.