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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 5:08:52 GMT
Hamas extended the range of its rockets and managed to hit targets as far away as 60 kilometers from the Gaza Strip. In fact, the Israeli operation helped Hamas boost its military might. No high-ranking Hamas leader, except Said Siyam, was killed during the operation.
The simple fact that rockets were still being fired from Gaza at the very end of Israels assault can only lead to one conclusion , Israel lost .
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 23, 2009 11:42:25 GMT
Hamas extended the range of its rockets and managed to hit targets as far away as 60 kilometers from the Gaza Strip. In fact, the Israeli operation helped Hamas boost its military might. No high-ranking Hamas leader, except Said Siyam, was killed during the operation. The simple fact that rockets were still being fired from Gaza at the very end of Israels assault can only lead to one conclusion , Israel lost . "Israel lost" ? If you think that the objective of the operation was the annihilation of Hamas then you are right. If the objective was to cripple Hamas's military force and its terrorizing power over the Gazan people then you are wrong |
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 23, 2009 11:56:16 GMT
They're in there somewhere, amid the rubble. More than 1,300 Palestinians killed
More than 4,000 buildings destroyed in Gaza, more than 20,000 severely damaged
50,000 Gazans homeless and 400,000 without running water You lie, again: "The number of Palestinians killed in Operation Cast Lead did not exceed five or six hundred, Lorenzo Cremonesi, a correspondent for Italy's Corriere della sera reported on Thursday. " www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292938156&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFullAs you lied in Jenine and Caana end endless other false allegation against Israelis and Jews If you repeat your Goebbels tactics and lies about "ethnically cleansing" you might end up believing them yourself |
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Post by Victor Meldrew on Jan 23, 2009 12:00:44 GMT
Israel lost
I think the phrase you were looking for is 'nobody won'.
Unless of course, you are in some way telling us that you think the actions of Hamas which led to an invasion and subsequent death of 1300 of its people is regarded as a great victory?
Now that would be sick and perverse.
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 12:06:54 GMT
Just as I think a lot of the pro-Israel camp work purely on the basis of "dead Arabs are a good thing" and have no real interest in seeing peace, I begin to suspect that Bertrus thinks 1300 dead Palestinians are a price well worth paying for a few weeks of ranting about the evils of Israel. Again.
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silkbreeze
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Post by silkbreeze on Jan 23, 2009 12:17:32 GMT
800,000 people are within range of the rockets that hamas are currently of launching.....to suggest that they all move out of the way is way too simplistic...the solution betrus offers is extremely narrow minded, in my opinion, unless it is calculated to take into consideration something you dumb politically correcters can't, that politics in the middle east dances to a different tune - just like it does in the west, africa and asia.....different.....
the loss of life innocent life is not a cause of celebration for most israelis, the loss of innocence, justness and the manipulation all sides are experience, from sources betrus wouldn't dream of admitting....it is too easy to push the 'blame' on israel - it is a cop out of the easiest form....especially from one who constantly carps on about the 'chosen people' and i sometimes wonder 'chosen for what'
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 12:23:04 GMT
800,000 people are within range of the rockets that hamas are currently of launching.....to suggest that they all move out of the way is way too simplistic I meant to say this but couldn't be arsed. Almost one million people displaced would be a fcuking humanitarian catastrophe if it wasn't just Israelis, in which case who cares. |
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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 12:28:14 GMT
One key difference that I can see between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza is that Jews in Warsaw were not firing rockets at the Germans. I think it's quite an important one. Anyway, much as I think Israel is incredibly heavy-handed and really shows too scant a regard for civilians, you can hardly expect them to say "Well, that's the 17th rocket today but we'd better not do anything to protect our civilians because we've got a bigger army and more hi-tech stuff." It may surprise you to learn that Israel also has innocent civilians among its population, and they too deserve to live without fear of attack. No theWarsaw Jews used IED's instead ...... the Hamas rockets are unguided , hence the reason why so few ever hit any target . I am curious to know if people supported the warsaw uprising ? And if so how can you condem people suffering a similar fate uprising against their own occupiers ? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_UprisingThe Ghetto fighters (numbering some 400 to 1,000 by April 19) were armed, if at all, mostly only with pistols and revolvers, which were of limited value in combat and were practically useless at larger distances; just a few rifles and automatic firearms smuggled into the Ghetto were available. The insurgents had little ammunition, and relied heavily on improvised explosive devices and incendiary bottles; some more weapons were supplied throughout the uprising or captured from the Germans. In his report, Stroop wrote his forces were able to recover the "booty" consisting of: |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 12:31:03 GMT
I am curious to know if people supported the warsaw uprising ? And if so how can you condem people suffering a similar fate uprising against their own occupiers ? Occupiers? I thought Israel had withdrawn from Gaza. |
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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 12:36:15 GMT
I am curious to know if people supported the warsaw uprising ? And if so how can you condem people suffering a similar fate uprising against their own occupiers ? Occupiers? I thought Israel had withdrawn from Gaza. They still occupy the borders of land and sea and still control the airspace of Gaza ......How do you think Britain would react if Vlad decided to send a few Russian bombers into British airspace .....The rest of plaestine is still occupied by the IDF ,,,,,,,,Gaza is just the tip of the iceberg...Israel won't be satisfied till they have decimated the West Bank also |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 12:58:19 GMT
Nah, I can't buy that. I'm regularly accused on here of being a Jew hating Israel basher but I have to say, I think if Israel were hellbent on acquiring and keeping as much land as possible then they wouldn't have dismantled their settlements and buggered off.
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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 13:07:30 GMT
Nah, I can't buy that. I'm regularly accused on here of being a Jew hating Israel basher but I have to say, I think if Israel were hellbent on acquiring and keeping as much land as possible then they wouldn't have dismantled their settlements and buggered off. Just because they dismantled a tiny portion of the settlements to keep the intenational community off of it's back does not mean they have 'buggered off' www.scn.org/~bk269/settlements.htmlnews.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6168752.stm |
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 23, 2009 13:12:16 GMT
One key difference that I can see between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza is that Jews in Warsaw were not firing rockets at the Germans. I think it's quite an important one. Anyway, much as I think Israel is incredibly heavy-handed and really shows too scant a regard for civilians, you can hardly expect them to say "Well, that's the 17th rocket today but we'd better not do anything to protect our civilians because we've got a bigger army and more hi-tech stuff." It may surprise you to learn that Israel also has innocent civilians among its population, and they too deserve to live without fear of attack. No theWarsaw Jews used IED's instead ...... the Hamas rockets are unguided , hence the reason why so few ever hit any target . I am curious to know if people supported the warsaw uprising ? And if so how can you condem people suffering a similar fate uprising against their own occupiers ? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_UprisingThe Ghetto fighters (numbering some 400 to 1,000 by April 19) were armed, if at all, mostly only with pistols and revolvers, which were of limited value in combat and were practically useless at larger distances; just a few rifles and automatic firearms smuggled into the Ghetto were available. The insurgents had little ammunition, and relied heavily on improvised explosive devices and incendiary bottles; some more weapons were supplied throughout the uprising or captured from the Germans. In his report, Stroop wrote his forces were able to recover the "booty" consisting of:" the Hamas rockets are unguided , hence the reason why so few ever hit any target ." 1) with today's technology unguided means that once you set the target (to the precision of 10-30 meters for such rockets) you cannot alter the direction after firing. 2) 15 seconds. 1 5 s e c o n d s. is what half a million people have to find shelter. This has been going on for 8 odd years. 3) Unlike the Gazan Hamas, the Jews in Warsaw used whatever weapons they had to protects their lives in the Ghetto from the Nazi extermination machine. They never endangered anybody else - ever. |
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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 13:12:39 GMT
And for something a little more recent RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Palestinian political leaders said Wednesday any resumption of peace talks with Israel would require the Jewish state to commit to withdraw from land occupied in 1967 and freeze all settlement activity. The Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) issued a statement in the West Bank city of Ramallah after new U.S. President Barack Obama telephoned Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in his first full day in office Wednesday. Obama telephoned to "communicate his commitment to active engagement in pursuit of Arab-Israeli peace from the beginning of his term," a spokesman said. The PLO Executive Committee said it was demanding Israel commit to a comprehensive freezing of all settlement activity in and around Arab East Jerusalem and in the occupied West Bank and a commitment to give up its hold on all occupied land captured in the 1967 Middle East war."The Palestinian leadership are not ready to return to political negotiations with Israel unless there is a new basis for talks," the PLO said, without elaborating. It said it wanted to conduct talks on the basis of the Arab peace initiative of 2002 which offers Israel peace and normal relations with all Arab countries in return for withdrawal from all territory captured in the 1967 war. Successive Israeli governments have either ignored or rejected the offer, which would require Israel to dismantle settlements which house hundreds of thousands of Jews. The administration of former U.S. President George W. Bush launched the latest peace drive at a conference in Annapolis, Maryland in 2007 with the hope of shepherding Israel and the Palestinians towards a peace deal before Bush left office. But Israel's failure to halt Jewish settlement building in the occupied West Bank, divisions among Palestinians and political instability in Israel thwarted any prospect of meeting that deadline. uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE50L07N20090122 |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 13:13:13 GMT
Well. It's not a part of the world I'm greatly interested in (mainly because I believe neither side wants peace as much as they want the other side to disappear forever) but I do seem to recall when Israel was withdrawing from Gaza people on here were saying ooh how long until Hamas starts bombing them from it, and lo it came to pass.
Basically I think Israel made the overtures and Hamas crapped in their faces. And now 1300 people are dead and I think both sides should look fcuking closely at their role in that.
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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 13:16:17 GMT
No theWarsaw Jews used IED's instead ...... the Hamas rockets are unguided , hence the reason why so few ever hit any target . I am curious to know if people supported the warsaw uprising ? And if so how can you condem people suffering a similar fate uprising against their own occupiers ? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_UprisingThe Ghetto fighters (numbering some 400 to 1,000 by April 19) were armed, if at all, mostly only with pistols and revolvers, which were of limited value in combat and were practically useless at larger distances; just a few rifles and automatic firearms smuggled into the Ghetto were available. The insurgents had little ammunition, and relied heavily on improvised explosive devices and incendiary bottles; some more weapons were supplied throughout the uprising or captured from the Germans. In his report, Stroop wrote his forces were able to recover the "booty" consisting of:" the Hamas rockets are unguided , hence the reason why so few ever hit any target ." 1) with today's technology unguided means that once you set the target (to the precision of 10-30 meters for such rockets) you cannot alter the direction after firing. 2) 15 seconds. 1 5 s e c o n d s. is what half a million people have to find shelter. This has been going on for 8 odd years. 3) Unlike the Gazan Hamas, the Jews in Warsaw used whatever weapons they had to protects their lives in the Ghetto from the Nazi extermination machine. The never endangered anybody else - ever. Every Israeli citizen is/was a member of the IDF , therefore they are targeting the exterminating machine that is wrought on killing them . In 8 years 24 Israelis have lost their lives from those unguided rocket attacks ...........I heard more Israelis died using their hairdryer in 8 years . |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 13:24:31 GMT
Hey! You can't say that because Hamas don't have the capability to kill more people then they should be allowed to kill a few now and again with impunity. I also think it's incredibly unfair on Israeli kids (and come to that anyone, seeing as military service is compulsory) to say it's ok to kill them because they will probably one day serve in the military.
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 23, 2009 13:27:04 GMT
I am sorry, I reviewed the post you quoted, but unintetinally, probably deleated it since it disapeared.
Thank goodness that you quoted it, so it remains on board (in tiny fonts - but is there!!!)
"I heard more Israelis died using their hairdryer in 8 years . "
You have no idea what it is to live under such threat. so just belt up.
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Post by warofwords on Jan 23, 2009 13:35:49 GMT
Hey! You can't say that because Hamas don't have the capability to kill more people then they should be allowed to kill a few now and again with impunity. I also think it's incredibly unfair on Israeli kids (and come to that anyone, seeing as military service is compulsory) to say it's ok to kill them because they will probably one day serve in the military. Not one mention of Palestinian kids . Noted |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 23, 2009 13:39:01 GMT
Erm, that's because we are talking about Israel.
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